ASCC in new Car and Driver

[NetViper]

Nothing much new to add. They said it will have a 5.0 V10 with at least 450HP. They say Honda is aiming at the Aston Martin. They also said expect a 6 figure price tag like the Lexus.

The biggest problem I see is this new car was designed by a kid (just two years out of college). The NSX was made while he was in diapers!

 

[BioBanker]

but no doubt that he can get it around the ring in GT4 in about 6 minutes!

 

[rickysals]

Nothing much new to add. They said it will have a 5.0 V10 with at least 450HP. They say Honda is aiming at the Aston Martin. They also said expect a 6 figure price tag like the Lexus.

The biggest problem I see is this new car was designed by a kid (just two years out of college). The NSX was made while he was in diapers!

Don't diss us young designers! :tongue: :tongue:

If a 55 year old guy puts shit on paper, it's still shit.

Saying this will compete with Aston Martin is a complete joke. Aston Martin owns that niche even more than Ferrari owns high-end-exotic. If you are looking for an Aston, nothing else will compare.

I really think it's a mistake to not have a $110,000 mid-engined car. The R8 is getting rave reviews with numerous magazines saying how it's in the prefect market situation. It really is the new NSX.

The NSX is dead.

 

[NSXBat]

Aston Martin owns that niche

I really think it's a mistake to not have a $110,000 mid-engined car.

The NSX is dead.

Going after AM ? Maybe Honda should take the BMW route and buy there car's way into the next James Bond film :tongue: It didn't work for BMW but seems to be working for AM :biggrin:

NSX is dead if they go after the Aston. Does anyone know a good American web site for Lotus Esprit ( I keep finding sites in UK ). I'm betting on next Esprit because I think Audi will price there car way too high!

Aston Martin & Lotus.... Who would have thought? I guess I'm going to have to start buying cars based on James Bond movies.

 

[my1stnsx]

The NSX is dead.

Sadly its true as of right now..dam honda!!!:frown:

 

[1SICKLEX]

It also was mainly designed by a newbie, only 2 years out of college but fine tuned by the elder designers.

 

[WingZ]

Going after AM ? Maybe Honda should take the BMW route and buy there car's way into the next James Bond film :tongue: It didn't work for BMW but seems to be working for AM :biggrin:

NSX is dead if they go after the Aston. Does anyone know a good American web site for Lotus Esprit ( I keep finding sites in UK ). I'm betting on next Esprit because I think Audi will price there car way too high!

Aston Martin & Lotus.... Who would have thought? I guess I'm going to have to start buying cars based on James Bond movies.

LoL Here's the Lotus info

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11538/2009-lotus-esprit.html

 

[rapture]

Thats just the problem!!! "When" did NSX ever have to "compete" with any other automaker.

NSX was a revolution!! Now they are thinking about "competing" with market?

Get the passion back Honda...where did it go? to the marketplace?

NSX doesnt need/nor has any competition (cuase point blank, its still best exotic/daily driver)

Why start now? Especially with an ASS-C (SEE ASS), a cross of Cadillac CTX And a back of a SOLARA.

NSX was based of a F14 fighter, now it looks like a UFO!

HSC is only design, stays in line/family of original.

 

[sotiri]

you are missing the point. The market is forcing honda to compete.
Simply the market is moving away from what the NSX owners prefer.
At some point you will just have to accept it.

 

[NSXBat]

LoL Here's the Lotus info
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11538/2009-lotus-esprit.html

Thanks for the help

- Honda dropping the HSC... helps Lotus keep the mid-priced mid-engine alive?
- Audi R8 at $130k (sounds low from numbers being tossed around at NSXprime)

FROM CAR-AND-DRIVER
We will have to wait until the end of 2008 to experience the new Esprit, but we are told it will be entirely new and the first Lotus to employ the “versatile vehicle architecture” aluminum construction technique that will allow other models to spawn from the Esprit’s bones. Internally, the new Esprit is known simply as MSC, for mid-engined supercar. Kimberly calls it the “jewel in the crown” and believes the new Esprit is crucial to Lotus’s future and reputation. Priced to compete with a Porsche 911 Turbo or the upcoming Audi R8, the next Esprit will be at least $130,000. Kimberly promises “a stunning, exhilarating car with high performance and vehicle dynamics superior to any other.”

Power for the Esprit is expected to come from an outside source, as Lotus
”says Kimberly, who will not confirm rumors that a version of BMW’s 4.8-liter V-8 with perhaps at least 400 horsepower will motivate the mid-engined supercar. What Kimberly does reveal is that the next Esprit will be sold as a coupe and convertible.

 

[ChrisK]

you are missing the point. The market is forcing honda to compete.
Simply the market is moving away from what the NSX owners prefer.
At some point you will just have to accept it.

I don't know, a lot of youngsters still dream of owning a mid engine exotic like Ferrari and Lamborghini. What is wrong with continuing to cater to the affordable mid engine market?

 

[sotiri]

becaused those 'kids' are now grownups like me, and the first car that lured me to acura was the NSX ... and the Legend.
Now if you ask me, since I have the disposable income to purchase my kids dream car, if given the choice of the new Lexus F, Mercedes 550, or a mid engine refreshed NSX, its going to be the Lexus, maybe the Merc.
If they give me the ASCC as a new NSX, with the proper enhancements (read throw on the consumer goodies) then its going to be the ASCC, maybe the Lexus, and certainly not the Merc.
Acura is chasing the market, Lexus is doing the same, and from my view, I would much rather buy a Lexus or an Acura over a Merc, BMW, or even Porsche.

 

[ChrisK]

becaused those 'kids' are now grownups like me, and the first car that lured me to acura was the NSX ... and the Legend.
Now if you ask me, since I have the disposable income to purchase my kids dream car, if given the choice of the new Lexus F, Mercedes 550, or a mid engine refreshed NSX, its going to be the Lexus, maybe the Merc.
If they give me the ASCC as a new NSX, with the proper enhancements (read throw on the consumer goodies) then its going to be the ASCC, maybe the Lexus, and certainly not the Merc.
Acura is chasing the market, Lexus is doing the same, and from my view, I would much rather buy a Lexus or an Acura over a Merc, BMW, or even Porsche.

I'm almost exactly like you though except I can't afford the F car and Lambo:tongue: I'd like to think I'm one of those grown ups with the wife and family, that went through the Acura line up fron the Integra, to a bunch of Legends, to the NSX. I too now own a few Lexus cars, but I still prefer the BMW drive experience and probably will be going back to BMW soon. Acura cornered the affordable mid engine exotic market IMHO. It gave cusomers like me who couldn't afford the $250K Ferrari and Lamborghini a chance to own such a car. Now, my only choice is the Porsche Cayman and maybe the upcoming Audi R8. If Acura made a second generation mid engine NSX, I'd be a buyer of that type of car no question. The Acura and Lexus cars can be my daily driver though.

I don't see anything wrong with building cars that cater to the market. Acura has the RL and maybe they can build another larger sedan over the RL. Lexus has the GS and LS. I don't see any reason why you can't also build a strictly "Halo" car like the NSX and specialty sports/exotic cars like the Ford GT as well. Heck, even Audi is jumping into the game with the R8.

 

[NSXGMS]

you are missing the point. The market is forcing honda to compete.
Simply the market is moving away from what the NSX owners prefer.
At some point you will just have to accept it.

The ASCC isn't inspring anyone. Is this really a car that's going to be embraced by the public in great numbers? Your suggestion that this is a format that the public wants isn't backed up by sales figures. Less than 2,000 M6s were sold in 2006, its first and probably its best selling year. I think the market performance of the M6 is a very good indicator of how the ASCC will sell. It's a very similar format. Honda doesn't want to price this too high-- Aston Martin, Maserati and Ferrari own this luxury market segment and both sell less than 5,000 units/year.

The Z06 sells but it performs lights-out. And I doubt Honda can produce the same performance at the same price. The M6's performance is not as good as the Z06 but it's name recognition more than makes up for it. And it is a more luxurious car.

I sincerely believe the ASCC will be priced higher than what Honda has suggested or it will have less technology and performance than suggested. I just don't see how this is a car that will sell many units particularly with it's offbeat looks.

 

[2slow2speed]

The ASCC isn't inspring anyone. Is this really a car that's going to be embraced by the public in great numbers? Your suggestion that this is a format that the public wants isn't backed up by sales figures. Less than 2,000 M6s were sold in 2006, its first and probably its best selling year. I think the market performance of the M6 is a very good indicator of how the ASCC will sell. It's a very similar format. Honda doesn't want to price this too high-- Aston Martin, Maserati and Ferrari own this luxury market segment and both sell less than 5,000 units/year.

The Z06 sells but it performs lights-out. And I doubt Honda can produce the same performance at the same price. The M6's performance is not as good as the Z06 but it's name recognition more than makes up for it. And it is a more luxurious car.

I sincerely believe the ASCC will be priced higher than what Honda has suggested or it will have less technology and performance than suggested. I just don't see how this is a car that will sell many units particularly with it's offbeat looks.

Hmm.. Perhaps looking at the entire 6 series production numbers might be more appropriate. Most M6/6 series customers are repeat BMW customers who have been loyal to the marque for many years.

BMW has amortized the cost of many components on the M6/6 series by sharing them with the 5 series.

The ASCC probably won't be able to exist in a vacuum all by itself. Perhaps Acura is hoping to share the yet to be named ASCC chassis with a 4 door sedan as well.

Either way the ASCC is probably long ways off from being produced.

 

[nsxtacey]

Masers can't even compete with AM let alone Acura. And AM has the cheapest interiors for a +100k cars. A 100k ASC will flop just like the RL. At 50k maybe a different story. Porsche will have their 4+4 out soon and it will kill that asc even if it has 450-500hp.

 

[WingZ]

I don't know, a lot of youngsters still dream of owning a mid engine exotic like Ferrari and Lamborghini. What is wrong with continuing to cater to the affordable mid engine market?

Um it doesn't pay a profit and it stopped selling well. You people do understand that Honda is a company and not a charitable orginization. They need to turn a profit. Yes the NSX was their dream ,but it became a very expensive dream when they couldn't sell it. Apparently they've done some research and found that a FR coupe will sell better.

What's really funny is all you guys saying that Honda won't be able to compete with Porsche, BMW or Aston Martin. You guys sound like the Porsche ,Lotus and Ferrari guys that said the NSX wouldn't be able to compete back in the early 90's when Honda said they were building the NSX...LoL

 

[MvM]

Everytime I read about the new Audi R8 and its development backgrond and specifications I am reminded on just how much these mirror the development of the NSX.
It is really almost a one on one copy of the NSX design goals.
But no one seems to notice.

Now, if Audi has decided to jump into a market it has never competed in before I don't see why Honda/Acura could not do the same. They already have build a (small) heritage with the NSX so why not continue that ??

And Audi seems to think it can manage succesfully with a 3400 lbs mid-engine car with just 420 Hp using an engine which they just pick up from their warehouse.

There is no question that Honda/Acura has the technological know-how and capability to build a mid-engine car that can compete with a car like the R8.

I think it is just a matter of making up your mind. Of course, Honda is in it to make money. But I also think that they are missing a point when they switch from a mid-engine to a front-engine design. Brands like Aston Martin, Porsche and Ferrari and constantly building on their heritage build by previous models and their cars are being often sold based on that heritage.

With the NSX, Honda has a unique change to start building on something no other Japanse carmaker has ever achieved before.

 

[sotiri]

The ASCC isn't inspring anyone. Is this really a car that's going to be embraced by the public in great numbers? Your suggestion that this is a format that the public wants isn't backed up by sales figures. Less than 2,000 M6s were sold in 2006, its first and probably its best selling year. I think the market performance of the M6 is a very good indicator of how the ASCC will sell. It's a very similar format. Honda doesn't want to price this too high-- Aston Martin, Maserati and Ferrari own this luxury market segment and both sell less than 5,000 units/year.

The Z06 sells but it performs lights-out. And I doubt Honda can produce the same performance at the same price. The M6's performance is not as good as the Z06 but it's name recognition more than makes up for it. And it is a more luxurious car.

I sincerely believe the ASCC will be priced higher than what Honda has suggested or it will have less technology and performance than suggested. I just don't see how this is a car that will sell many units particularly with it's offbeat looks.

The only people the ASCC isnt inspiring are those who are current NSX owners-on this forum.
I think that if it is grabbing my attention, and I dont own a current NSX (but would have if I could have afforded it when I was 20) then they are probably doing something right.

 

[NSXBat]

The only people the ASCC isnt inspiring are those who are current NSX owners-on this forum..

The problem with the ASCC being inspiring in any way is ...

Three are so many GT luxury sports cars with the engine in front. All you can say about the ASCC is that its from Honda.

So if you're a Honda fan that was thinking about a SLR, Aston, or Viper... Thank God, because now you can buy that car from the Honda family.

Not much of a big deal...

 

[sotiri]

well then the same can be said about the Lexus F.

 

[NSXBat]

well then the same can be said about the Lexus F.

Nope.

( But very interesting point, thanks for bringing it up )

Its a shame but.... Acrua/Honda had made a name in Automoive Hall of Fame for doing a japanese mid-engine. Othewise the Acura brand has not caught-on amoung the top spenders in the auto market. (Acura builds a great $30k-$60k car)

Lexus made a name for its self as the first Jap company to be able to sell High Price cars ($50k-$100k) and keep them coming back in droves. Lexus has become the top quality luxry brand. And their new sports car will ride that wave of rich loyal customers, who won't blink an eye at $100k plus price tag.

Lexus became a brand Icon in our Pop Culture. A Movie Star on the Red Carpet can toss out names like BMW, or Lexus and get instant respect. Acura never got there.

 

[sotiri]

'Lexus became a brand Icon in our Pop Culture. A Movie Star on the Red Carpet can toss out names like BMW, or Lexus and get instant respect. Acura never got there.'
Acura never got there b/c they didnt follow up on the NSX... in the time line the market wanted.
Now they are trying to.
If they are going compete on the same plane as Lexus, I think a front engine SHAWD/rear drive platform is a good way to start.

 

[NSXBat]

If they are going compete on the same plane as Lexus... good way to start.

Acura was chasing us for a long time. Honda's F1 program, Honda's Indy 500 and IRL racing programs... Honda was a high-tech engineering company
and Acura was chasing young men that like hi-technology or had advanced degrees.

Now they are going to toss-out the RSX and NSX and go after Lexus?

Lexus is so entrenched in their customer-base, so many of whom are
non-car-people who look at image and name-brand (over engineering and racing). So making a car that is as-good-as Lexus won't get Acura into much of Lexus' market share.

Lexus edged out MB when MB stumbled after they got bogged down with Chrysler.
Lexus will have to do something wrong, and Acura will have to do everything right.
Good luck!

Step-one has been a success... dump RSX and NSX guys.
Now its time to go after rich house-wifes of Orange County LOL
You need more than great engineering to attrack this new market (non car people).

 

[sotiri]

Well lets not forget that Honda/Acura actually created the nippo luxury market.
When Honda stepped in with its Legend in 86, everyone laughed.
Then in 90 finally Lexus and Infinity started to play catchup.
Acura dropped the ball in the mid 90's, and now they are attempting to leapfrog.
Now the current NSX owners can disagree, and they can complain about the loss of a mid-engine they liked.
But by the sales figures, and such, Acura must target where the sales actually are.
Many people LEFT acura b/c they didnt offer a product like Lexus, so Acura must adapt to the market.
Damned be the NXS mid-engine platform.
And I will repeat it, give me the ASCC with all the consumer goodies, and I will most likely buy it-presuming the quality is similar to Lexus.
If its superior, they will have more sales than Lexus.