Are all "Pre-Owned" Car Salesmen scum?

Joined
30 October 2000
Messages
4,249
Location
Houston, TX
Maybe not all....just the ones I deal with...

We've been shopping for a used SUV for my dad. His first choice was a Cayenne(no 3rd row), and then X5, then Escalade(too big for him), and we also considered the Range Rover HSC s/c(reliability concerns, no 3rd row, no certified warranty).

After some shopping around, we decided the 07+ X5 4.8 was the best fit for him since it has the 3rd row option, sporty, etc etc. So we see a used low mileage 07 with everything we desired (3rd row, navi, 20" Y-spoke wheels) at a Chevy dealership. We go in test drive, sit down to talk about price. Asking price was $37,995...we offered $36k. After going back and forth, the sales manager comes out and starts lecturing us. In conversation, he offended my sister, stating he would never buy a Mercedes Benz (she drives a new C63). I asked him who just got a government bailout, and we walked out. The salesman did call a few times...now 2 weeks later, the price is $35,995. But we will not be going back.

Last night, we see a similar X5 at the BMW dealership, certified, etc. etc. In conversation, we mentioned the Chevrolet dealership offending us and we walked away.

This one, asking price was $39,991. We test drove it, offered $37,500. Salesman goes to the manager, comes back and hands my dad his license back saying he's not going to need it anymore. Tells us the manager told him to raise the price as advertised, it is already too low!?!? No counter offer. Says we might be able to find one at the Chevy dealership in that price range. Wow. So then we get up and he says sorry and what not, then says maybe we can knock off a thousand. I'm thinking, well, which one is it, are you raising the price or not?

Also, in conversation, previously, we discussed possibly swapping wheels, because another X5 had the 20" wheels, this one had 19's. Both same year, same sport package, both certified, etc. He said they cannot because the wheels were certified on the car and they can't change them.

So I asked him:
If we bought the X5, and I installed 26 inch spinners, would that void the certified warranty?
- No

If I bought new OEM wheels from you guys, would that void it?
- No

If I brought in a friends certified X5, and paid you guys to swap our wheels, would that void it?
- No sir

If you guys swapped OEM wheels from one certified vehicle to another identical vehicle, that voids the certified warranty?
...blank look

Done venting….but still helping my dad shop. :smile:
 
Keep shopping. BTW - IMHO you counter offers are way to generous. Most used cars have 8-10K margin. They buy them off lease or auction, clean it up and add $8-10K to their cost. I would offer them a price that is way more offensive.:wink:
 
Wow, that much mark up huh? I know they make there money, but I don't appreciate the attitude from these guys.

They always want to show me the blue book, trade in, etc.

So when we going to the auctions??? :biggrin:
 
You're doing the right thing. Make them come chase you. You have all the power in the world and don't need to buy their car.

Make them work and take no prisoners.
 
I feel your pain. I recently bought a '06 350Z touring roadster and the dealership was asking $28K for it. I offered them $23K and they wouldn't take it. A couple hours of haggling later I ended up getting it for $23,750. So I had to waste 2 hours over $750. What a pain...
 
Z

Ritesh is correct. There's a lot of room on these used cars. I found my mom's cpo'd x5 and we were able to agree on a price that was more than $5k off their asking price
 
I feel your pain. I recently bought a '06 350Z touring roadster and the dealership was asking $28K for it. I offered them $23K and they wouldn't take it. A couple hours of haggling later I ended up getting it for $23,750. So I had to waste 2 hours over $750. What a pain...

That is a huge difference! I need to take you with us. :smile:


Z

Ritesh is correct. There's a lot of room on these used cars. I found my mom's cpo'd x5 and we were able to agree on a price that was more than $5k off their asking price

Matt, what dealership? I'm just curious. We will keep shopping, but I wonder why the BMW dealership kicked dirt in our face if we made a reasonable offer.

Just curious, why aren't you considering 07-09 MDX :confused:

Simple...styling. I'm not a huge fan of the MDX , neither is my father. He is retired, he's keeping his GS430, and wants the SUV for the weekends.
 
Keep shopping. BTW - IMHO you counter offers are way to generous. Most used cars have 8-10K margin. They buy them off lease or auction, clean it up and add $8-10K to their cost. I would offer them a price that is way more offensive.:wink:

WOW!!!!

You sir are very very very wrong...

I own a couple of used car dealerships so obviously these threads always catch my attention...

You should not be treated that way no matter what. Be it a used car guy ( scum) or a doctor. PERIOD. Keep shopping . I can tell you that 80% of purchases are from people that treat the customer with respect and you will find one for sale somewhere you will be treated the correct way.

But the 8-10k markup is a joke..... yes the " certified" cars that new dealers sell tend to have a higher markup but I can tell you that in 11 years in the business that that statement is very wrong. The used car market is horrible right now. I buy a lot of cars from private owners clean them up and sell them at dealer auctions and make money because that how high used cars are in price.The newer vehicles 09-10 used can be found and at a decent price but anything 08- older is very high. There is a huge shortage of vehicles and has been since Aug 09. It is simple supply and demand.


Thanks for reading.

Brian ( your friendly non scum car dealer that doesnt mark anything up 8-10k:biggrin:)
 
8-10k in margin? :eek::biggrin: I wish! My wife could quit working and maybe we could go on a vacation if that were anywhere close to correct.
 
WOW!!!!

You sir are very very very wrong...

I own a couple of used car dealerships so obviously these threads always catch my attention...

You should not be treated that way no matter what. Be it a used car guy ( scum) or a doctor. PERIOD. Keep shopping . I can tell you that 80% of purchases are from people that treat the customer with respect and you will find one for sale somewhere you will be treated the correct way.

But the 8-10k markup is a joke..... yes the " certified" cars that new dealers sell tend to have a higher markup but I can tell you that in 11 years in the business that that statement is very wrong. The used car market is horrible right now. I buy a lot of cars from private owners clean them up and sell them at dealer auctions and make money because that how high used cars are in price.The newer vehicles 09-10 used can be found and at a decent price but anything 08- older is very high. There is a huge shortage of vehicles and has been since Aug 09. It is simple supply and demand.


Thanks for reading.

Brian ( your friendly non scum car dealer that doesnt mark anything up 8-10k:biggrin:)

+1

WOW!! Where do people get the idea that these cars are marked up 8-10k???
 
Besides, a flat stated of 8-10k markup is retarded. That would be a huge variance in percentage depending on price of the vehicle.

You're trying to tell me a $8k car at auction is marked up to 16-18k for sale? Additionally, a 70k car is marked up to 78-80k? That makes one a 100% markup which the other is about 10%. LOL

Doesn't make sense and whoever told you this logic - is flawed.
 
8-10k in margin? :eek::biggrin: I wish! My wife could quit working and maybe we could go on a vacation if that were anywhere close to correct.

Whatever! You made a killing on my Imola....JK.:wink:

Craig above is THE ONLY used car salesman I've ever dealt with that treated me like a customer. He went way beyond the call and arranged my ex-Imola, picked it up himself, etc. etc. It was a simple and easy transaction and we are now mates. He even notified me about Queenlives car which I subsequently bought!

In general though I hate to say it but if there were more Craig's we wouldn't be having this thread.
 
Still don't know why sophisticated/$ savvy people (NSX owners/business people) buy anything other than new cars from the dealer. Less hassle? Yeah right. They serve their purpose well for less educated/knowledgeable people that need a helping hand, financing, etc.

Option 1:
Professional salesman
Highly proficient in hiding mechanical issues
High overhead to compensate for
Profit motive
Profit requirement
Transaction time: half a day minimum
People involved in transaction besides you: 3+

Option 2:
Regular guy 99/100 times
Not proficient at hiding problems, will usually volunteer them
No overhead
No profit motive
No profit requirement
Transaction time: 30 minutes + shop inspection if necessary
People involved in the transaction besides you: 1

I'd rather buy private party every time. If you must buy dealer certified, that's a pretty telling characteristic of a car's overall level of craftsmanship.
 
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Guess it depends if you have a trade in or not. You'll always make more money selling your used car privately then buying another one privately, but sometimes people simply don't want to deal with selling privately and would rather take the several $K hit for convenience.

When I bought my RL, I looked at private and dealerships for around 6 weeks. I also had access to Manheim. I was looking for an 05/06 in great shape with a max price of $16K that I didn't have to drive across the country to pick up. A local Ford dealership had an RL on eBay but it was too much $$$. I saw it appear on Manheim and I knew it was going to fetch about $3K less than their asking price of $18K before Manheim charged their fees, so I called them and offered them $15K. They said NFW. We hung up, they called me back 45 minutes later and offered it for $15.5K I asked how much they were going to mark that up with dealership fees and the answer was too much. I said no thanks. Next day they called back again and said $15,750 (plus taxes, registration) to drive it off the lot. I came up, looked at the car, they had all the service records with the previous owner's name blacked out on a set of photocopies they gave me. The records showed he was the original owner and EXTREMELY meticulous. I was able to figure out who it was, called the guy and chatted for a while and it was clear the car had no issues, so I wrote them a check for $15,750 (thank you insurance settlement from my rear ended G35) and drove it home.

Yes, dealing with used car dealers can be a major PITA, but if you take your time, don't be in a rush, do your homework, etc, it can work out.
 
Besides, a flat stated of 8-10k markup is retarded. That would be a huge variance in percentage depending on price of the vehicle.

You're trying to tell me a $8k car at auction is marked up to 16-18k for sale? Additionally, a 70k car is marked up to 78-80k? That makes one a 100% markup which the other is about 10%. LOL

Doesn't make sense and whoever told you this logic - is flawed.

I was talking about the vehicles he is looking at not a civic. And yes - in my experience most CPO'ed cars have a significant mark up. On a BMW X5 I would expect a $8-10K mark up. Sorry if I offend the used car salesman(:biggrin:- thats a first) but that it absolutely true in Dallas, Tx.
 
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Generally speaking used car dealers are not to be trusted. I do not blame them, generally they are not well educated. I blame the uneducated, uninformed buyer. Do your homework, know the product and value and then buy what works for you. I typically could not care less about what the salesperson is saying. I view them as the one who just completes the paperwork. Good luck.
 
Zishan,

I'd scour the private party ads as well. Every time I encounter a dealer (parts, service, browsing) I walk away needing a shower.:frown:

I can understand wanting a certified because it is for your father. I was sitting in a financial awareness lecture for younger sailors a few months ago and the instructor suggested going to a dealer on a friday afternoon, maybe 30-45 minutes before closing. That way you are taking up the dealer's time and they are more likely to want to close a deal and go home and less likely to take you for a ride.

Miner
 
I was talking about the vehicles he is looking at not a civic. And yes - in my experience most CPO'ed cars have a significant mark up. On a BMW X5 I would expect a $8-10K mark up. Sorry if I offend the used car salesman(:biggrin:- thats a first) but that it absolutely true in Dallas, Tx.

First off there was no offense taken I am simply clearing up the false statements you made with fact. Also the stereotype you are trying to throw out is actually funny.... ( maybe I will wear my plaid suit today) :rolleyes:

Here are the Auction averages on said vehicle..This does not take into account the options. Usually the Above average numbers are the loaded models obviously commanding more money than the less equipt and being it is certified you should be looking at above average as your price point as these vehicles are often near perfect. I am not sure on mileage of the ones your looking at but here are some averages for you..

Auction Averages
Zeroes Indicate No Recent Auction Sales. See "Transactions"

For Week Ending Oct 4
Above Average Below
Sale Price $37,121 $33,014 $28,907

Odometer 22,288 44,576 66,864


Total Sold All 126

Oh and I broke that average down to the southwest region ( dallas area) still the same numbers..
 
Generally speaking used car dealers are not to be trusted. I do not blame them, generally they are not well educated. I blame the uneducated, uninformed buyer. Do your homework, know the product and value and then buy what works for you. I typically could not care less about what the salesperson is saying. I view them as the one who just completes the paperwork. Good luck.



Are you serious? Not well educated? WOW....
 
Whatever! You made a killing on my Imola....JK.:wink:

Craig above is THE ONLY used car salesman I've ever dealt with that treated me like a customer. He went way beyond the call and arranged my ex-Imola, picked it up himself, etc. etc. It was a simple and easy transaction and we are now mates. He even notified me about Queenlives car which I subsequently bought!

In general though I hate to say it but if there were more Craig's we wouldn't be having this thread.

Ah shucks........:redface:

I'm sure I said before, but I'll say it again. I'm at Acura because I love and believe in the brand. I grew up on Honda cars and made the natural transition over to Acura. If Honda didn't make the car, my dad never touched it. I was actually jealous of all the other families that had minivans. We had 2 Accords that we took everywhere as a family.

I know it's been thrown out here that "most" salesman are uneducated and out to rip you off. I'd like to think that I don't fall under that blanket statement and always go out of my way to help people. I know I've always helped people here on Prime and I've only ever met 2 of you in person. Ever.
 
Did someone above say "us NSX owners should be buying new cars"?

If so, yes its nice but I'd rather have someone take the depreciation hit for me!

I'll never buy new again unless I'm a multi-millionaire. Otherwise being smart with my money means more to me than knowing I have a brand spanking new car.:biggrin:
 
I seriously wish buying a car, new or used, was treated the same as buying a bicycle: The list price is $X.00, the sale price is $X.00. Period.

What gives the dealer the right to hide facts, obfuscate, lie and manipulate the price of a vehicle by thousands of dollars?
 
Still don't know why sophisticated/$ savvy people (NSX owners/business people) buy anything other than new cars from the dealer. Less hassle? Yeah right. They serve their purpose well for less educated/knowledgeable people that need a helping hand, financing, etc.

Option 1:
Professional salesman
Highly proficient in hiding mechanical issues
High overhead to compensate for
Profit motive
Profit requirement
Transaction time: half a day minimum
People involved in transaction besides you: 3+

Option 2:
Regular guy 99/100 times
Not proficient at hiding problems, will usually volunteer them
No overhead
No profit motive
No profit requirement
Transaction time: 30 minutes + shop inspection if necessary
People involved in the transaction besides you: 1

I'd rather buy private party every time. If you must buy dealer certified, that's a pretty telling characteristic of a car's overall level of craftsmanship.

I second this motion, though suspect many people go to dealers for ease of financing rather than saving and paying cash for vehicles.
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, just wanted to share some of my frustration. Been sharing a lot of frustration lately... :smile:

Truth of the matter, in the past, I've had very good salesmen and the slime balls. Lately I've been running into real pricks. Keeping in mind, my father is absolutely the nicest person you will meet. He is overly trusting, thus I help guild him in his decisions. But we've always treated them with respect.



I seriously wish buying a car, new or used, was treated the same as buying a bicycle: The list price is $X.00, the sale price is $X.00. Period.

What gives the dealer the right to hide facts, obfuscate, lie and manipulate the price of a vehicle by thousands of dollars?


I completely agree. Salesman love to pull out KBB prices...I guess I can start asking for trade in price they paid. :smile:



For now, we are still shopping and are in no hurry. Private party in still plausible as we can always get an extended warranty.

Regards,
 
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