Anyone have a minute to look over an estimate?

[Aiken Drum]

I noticed some wisps coming out the the engine bay yesterday, and they smelled like coolant, so I took it in to Acura to have them suss it out. They came back with a laundry list of leaks.

Here's the report, verbatim, with estimates (parts+labor). I'm a software guy, I just don't know enough about engine repair to know how realistic these amounts are. I'm going to have to assume they aren't lying about the actual symptoms (although I'd kinda like to know why nobody mentioned anything about all this oil leakage the last time I got my oil changed at Acura).

TECHNICIAN VERIFIED CONCERN - FOUND COOLANT BOTTLE LEAKING ($196.00), ALL 4 CAMPLUGS ARE LEAKING DOWN ONTO EXHAUST ($716.00), BOTH VALVE COVER GASKETS AND SPARKPLUG SEALS ARE LEAKING OIL ($276), THE OILPAN GASKET IS SEEPING ($199.00), THE RIGHT INNER LARGE CV BOOT BANG IS LEAKING ($75.00), THE CLUTCH MASTER CYLINDER IS LEAKING ($355.00), AND THE TIMING BELT AND WATERPUMP ARE PASTDUE FOR REPLACEMENT IF NOT ALREADY DONE ($1400.00).

I just don't know if I'm getting yanked around here. I expect a certain amount of that at a dealership, but does it really take eight hours to replace four cam plugs ($9 parts, $707 labor)? I'm just totally clueless here.

I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone has. I'm going to assume that what needs to be done needs to be done, so I guess it's really just the pricing I need verified.

Thanks...

 

[ncdogdoc]

I will probably get jumped for saying this, but the coolant bottle and clutch master cylinder are all I would worry about right now. (If and only if the TB and WP have been done.)

The coolant bottle is fairly common. Might even find a used one very cheap here on Prime, or take advantage of your misfortune to get a shiny one from Dali or Science of Speed.

Clutch master cylinder is also not unusual, but I think that price is a little high for replacement. IIRC, mine was only around $250 back in 2002. (1995 with 60k+ miles)

The cam plugs and oil pan gasket are usually very very slow leaks. I would check my oil level weekly and see just how much you are losing. Mine have been leaking on the track rat since I bought it two years ago, and I have never seen a drop of oil on the garage, driveway or in the trailer. Not pretty, but not causing me any problems (yet). The cam plugs are a pain to replace, that is why the labor is high compared to the part cost.

I am sure LarryB or DanO will chime in with much better advice

 

[chriswtx]

go with the Sience of speed collant bottle.Find out if the timing belt has been done. Only if it has not been done then have the valve cover and cam plug leaks fixed at that time. The 8 hours of labor for cam plugs should only be about 3 hours on top of the timing belt. There should be no charge for labor on the valv cover gasket, it has to be removed anyway when doing the cam plugs. And the valve cover gaskets are cheap. Same goes for the spark plug seals. As for the oil pan. Skip it for now and keep an Eye on it. I have no experience with the clutch problem yet.

That being said, I would look for another dealer or an independent shop. They are way off in their prices and suggestions. They should have explained it better and gave you better options.

Question? What year and how many miles?

 

[Aiken Drum]

It's a '95 with 85,000 miles. (78,500 by the previous owner, 6500 by me in the last year and a half.)

As for the timing belt, according to the previous owner's records, it was done 9 Nov 2000 at 58,744 miles. No mention of the water pump. Are those two normally done at the same time?

I'll probably get the SoS coolant bottle, as I can tell by the records that the existing bottle is at least the fourth this NSX has had. Given that I'm a pretty much a newbie when it comes to most mechanical matters, is it possible/likely that I'll make a mess of the installation? The faq indicates that it's not a lot of work, but if I get air in the lines, I'm probably not equipped to bleed the system.

There's a guy in this area with a shop that's been recommended by other NSX owners. I think I'll have him take a look at the gaskets et al, since it looks by the service records like they're the originals, so they very likely do need replacing.

 

[DDozier]

I can tell by the records that the existing bottle is at least the fourth this NSX has had. Given that I'm a pretty much a newbie when it comes to most mechanical matters, is it possible/likely that I'll make a mess of the installation? The faq indicates that it's not a lot of work, but if I get air in the lines, I'm probably not equipped to bleed the system.

There's a guy in this area with a shop that's been recommended by other NSX owners. I think I'll have him take a look at the gaskets et al, since it looks by the service records like they're the originals, so they very likely do need replacing. [/B]

By all means check around, order the parts you feel you can replace yourself from one of the discount part dealers, but do not be afraid of the service work on your NSX. If you have even the basics of car knowledge and hand tools, you can handle allot of this your self. The coolant bottle is very easy to replace and as it is the highest spot in the coolant system air is not likely an issue, at Nsxpo several bottles were changed including mine and no bleeding was required, but even if it was that process is messy but simple. For me one of the best parts of owning a NSX is the fact that I can work on it myself. Most systems on the car are simple to work on, the service manual is very detailed, and in most cases easy to follow. Do not be afraid, also having another NSX owner around that you can work with is good for both of you.

Best of luck and remember there are a lot of others here that can help if you get stuck.

Dave

 

[chriswtx]

definatly do the collant bottle yourself. It only takes 15 mins or so. You just need a metric socket set(10mm I think) and an adjustable plyer. Since your timing belt was done recently(99% sure they did the waterpump also), dont worry about the oil leaks. Keep an eye on them. If they start to leave a small puddle under your car or your start to smell burning oil, then have it looked at again. More than likely its what we call slow seapage and not leaks. Very common.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I put down a white paper mat under the whole car last night and took the car out for a good 20 minute workout before parking it on top. Today, I have no oil spots. We'll see in a week.

When I park the car, there is a very slight smell of oil under the stronger coolant smell, but I don't normally stick my nose in the engine bay, so I don't know if it's always that way.

I've ordered the SoS coolant bottle and will put it in and see how things look/smell afterward.

I also noticed on the mat that I'm getting some clear fluid (possibly with a very, very pale turqoise hue) dripping down in front, roughly from behind the battery area. When I get down on the ground and watch, it just drips off part of the frame, so I can't say for sure where it's coming from. It doesn't seem to have a scent, but it's hard to tell in our scent-riddled garage. Kinda looks like wiper fluid, maybe. Not sure. It'd be the right area for a leak in the lines to the washers. At least it's definitely not the bright green of coolant.

Thanks for the feedback. If anyone has anything else to add, I'm all ears. Or eyes, I guess.

 

[dgaetano]

My NSX has almost the exact list of issues. All age related stuff (mine's a 96, only 34K miles). I've let the oil pan gasket and the cam plugs be for a year with no worries. Just the slight smell of oil when the car is hot.

The prices they quoted on the timing belt, clutch MC, and oil pan gasket are about 15-20 percent higher than I got quoted recently from a local garage. I'd expect the dealer to cost more.

And while we're talking about cam plug replacement, I recal this thread about non-oem plugs:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27292

Has anybody actually used these on an NSX yet? I was thinking about using them when I have my timing belt replaced this fall...

 

[drew]

My .10 is that you should probably have your clutch master replaced. It will drip on the inside of the car and make the area behind your pedal cluster a gooey mess. Along with ruining the paint, carpet and whatever else the fluid comes into contact with.

ESPECIALLY if you have brake fluid dripping off your frame, it will cause so much damage so quickly you'll consider driving your car directly to the junkyard in a few months. The brake fluid can have a bluish tint to it so...could be washer fluid dripping from the hood, but get it checked out!

Also if the CV boot dries out completely: you will have a very expensive repair. But have these replaced when you get a new clutch. No real point in doing it now, unless the boot(s) are ripped.

It sounds like you kinda have a car that has been ridden hard and left wet. It shouldn't have this many problems all at the same time.

The prices quoted are a bit high (but some of it is difficult) and double dipped (as pointed out), but those are all reasonable things that need to be replaced.

 

[Eddy]

Aiken,
For the fluid dripping out in the front, touch it with your fingers and see if it's slippery or not.. If it's slippery then it's brake fluid.. If it's not (as in water is not), it's probably just water from your AC.. nothing to worry about.. All cars do that when you run your AC..

Eddy

 

[Aiken Drum]

It sounds like you kinda have a car that has been ridden hard and left wet.

Heh, that's almost exactly how my wife describes my car: "She's been rode hard and put away wet."

Yeah, the previous owner worked it hard and probably sold it because he'd practically driven it into the ground. I'm trying to treat it a little better and I've fixed up some of the stuff he neglected. I don't mind too much, it got me the year and color of NSX I wanted, for roughly the price I could pay. He did do a good job with routine care from Acura, oil changes and part replacement and the like, gotta give him credit for that. Mind you, it's like a man who beats his wife, but gets her good health care.

The frontal drips are infrequent, so it's hard to get a feel for the fluid, but it doesn't seem to be slippery. I'll have it looked at, though.

Thanks again for the tips, guys. I really appreciate it.

 

[JChoice]

Wow,

With the exception of the master cylinder, I received the EXACT same diagnosis - including inner right CV boot. I had already replaced my master cylinder a couple of years ago. They even told me that I needed to replace my timing belt and water pump. They finally agreed that I didn't need to do it when I insisted that they check it again - I had already had that work done three years ago.

The dealership was trying to rip me off - I think I just got the standard "high mileage" diagnosis.

I am going to go ahead and have the work done but only because I'm going to have SOS cams and other parts installed at the same time.

 

[jlindy]

That was almost the same laundry list my dealer presented me when I first bought the car. They quoted me over $1000 for rear cam plugs, oil pan gasket, and valve cover gaskets. I think it is safe to say most people in St. Louis will stay clear of our local dealer as they have been absolutely horrible. I took it to the local NSX guru here for 1/4 of the cost and not a further problem. I wouldn't take my car anywhere else and I thinks others in St. Louis have really started going elsewhere besides the dealer. (at least here)

By the way, the oil pan gasket is a $20 part. You have to drop the exhaust to get to it though. Do that yourself too.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

This list of items is a pretty common list. If you want the engine totally sealed and clean(assuming well running), I would say at 85K this is about right. The pricing is another issue, it is definately on the high side.

I would guess your CV Boot is not leaking, but the grease has broken down, and it is like soup in there, so it leaks out and kind of spits. It is typically the right inner CV boot BTW. It would really be a good idea to replace all CV boots and grease, or at least both on the right axle(again, save labor).

The overlapping labor is just way out of line as others have mentioned. Charging additionally for VC Gasket replacement is just a plain rip-off, when either cam plugs or timing belt is on the list of items. If you do the timing belt much of the cam plug work is done also.

With that said you have a bill here of $3200+, so is this what they are quoting for ALL the work being done at once, or if it were separate work? Did they offer any discount for the whole job?

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Aiken Drum]

Well, they were busy and it's an estimate, so I'm betting it was thrown together quickly instead of carefully considering areas of overlap. Not that that's okay, I just think that's part of what was going on.

Though I'm sure I can talk them down somewhat, the laundry list of oil leaks with no evidence on the garage floor kinda puts me off having anything done that they diagnosed. I'm going to look into the local NSX guy that was recommended to me.

 

[EIFFEL]

Most place will include vc and spark plug tube seals in the timing belt quote. if not, then those parts should be the only things added on the t-belt job. I can't imagine charging extra labor to put new gaskets on valve cover,when you already have the valve cover removed to do the timing belt job. The cam plugs replacement with t-belt job should add no more than 3-4 hrs. labor to the estimate. The other items didn't seem too out of line for dealer prices.

 

[robr]

i just recently had very similar work done. i still need to do my oil pan gasket though.

parts & labor came to just under $2400 at mechanics direct for:

water pump replacement
timing belt replacement
new timing belt cover
valve adjustment
change coolant
change transmission fluid
flush/change brake fluid (abs and main brakes)
change oil
oil filter
tie rod end
fuel filter
denso iridium spark plugs
4 camshaft end plugs
spool valves
install new struts/springs (parts provided)
lube sway bars
alignment to 94 specs

if you really want a breakdown, i'll scan in the invoice. keep in mind this is not an acura dealership, but a honda/acura specialty shop that provides an NSXCA discount.

 

[nsxtasy]

keep in mind this is not an acura dealership, but a honda/acura specialty shop that provides an NSXCA discount.

Also keep in mind that only some places have independent mechanics with a lot of NSX experience, like Mechanics Direct near Boston (as well as places like Basch in Phoenix, Don's Hilltop near San Francisco, and Autowave and Applied Motorsports in Southern California). These folks are often significantly less than dealer service in their area. However, if you live in an area that does not have an independent with this experience, your options may be to use an inexpensive independent who is not all that familiar with the NSX, or an expensive dealer with NSX experience. I wouldn't hesitate to use the former for minor repairs like brakes and tires... but for the extensive work you are talking about, I would insist on taking it somewhere where they do a lot of work on NSXs.