any chance you Canadians can shed some light on this please?

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Regarding my post #26 in this thread:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97623

If any of you can comment on my questions, I would appreciate it. I’m trying to understand the differences between life in Canada and the US, with regard to respect, including the police (police being a sort of social indicator).
Thanks,
Peter
 
Regarding my post #26 in this thread:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97623

If any of you can comment on my questions, I would appreciate it. I’m trying to understand the differences between life in Canada and the US, with regard to respect, including the police (police being a sort of social indicator).
Thanks,
Peter

All the trouble that I was in, in the past, and my friends in the racing scene... I have never seen a police officer use a taser or even mention anything of one.
I think they are allowed to use them at their discretion.
In regards to not hearing about this much on the news, well does the US actually hear of 50% what happens in Canada anyways?
The only incident where I was in that involved me taking an officer to court was when a cop had pulled me over for "suspicion", which they aren't actually allowed to do unless they have a reason, and continued to be extremely rude, tried stripping down my car, and when I told him he was not allowed to do that, he continued to tell me to put my hands behind my back so he can cuff them and while he was doing that he pushed me hard onto the ground in which i ended up cutting my chin, lower lip.... fortunate for me, he had done this in broad day light , where there were a few civil witnesses...
After everything went down in court (I have a couple uncles who are Lawyers) He got in quite a lot of trouble and had to actually give me a face to face apology! That made my day seeing how hard it was for him to do so.
 
There are bad apples everywhere, but Ive had nothing but positive experiences with the Police, barring one ticket happy guy who writes up everyone in my neighborhood for meaningless things. He is nice about it and tells you to fight it if you disagree (knowing that he gets triple time if he shows up in court on his holiday, which Im sure he does), but he is still a prick.

Otherwise, even in my NSX with a big wing, I have lots of pleasant interactions with police driving beside me. One even let me off, outright, from a ticket that I was stone cold guilty of after I apologized profusely and truthfully told him that I didnt see the no right turn sign.

All in all, good guys. Tazers are here and they make the news a lot these days, but I cannot recall one of the news events being from TO - we always hear about the deaths or inappropriate use cases only. The others are silent
 
Now I need to mention that Dave dreams of being handcuffed and roughed up by a man in uniform - so the reasons he's put his big wing on his car are a little obvious to those who know him!

Really, if you want to contrast and compare US and Canada policing, attitudes, etc. Let me take a stab - I will point out I used to run an international marketing company and was responsible for understanding both CDN and American culture on behalf of my clients' brands.

Overall, I would say the US culture is more punitive - they believe that people who do "wrong things" should be punished and those who are innocent victims should be rewarded. What this means is a guy who's breaking a law (any law) gets a stiffer punishment in the USA and a guy who's harmed gets a bigger reward.

Example - in NY they recently upheld the life sentence (which in the USA is really life - in Canada its 10-20 yrs) of a guy who, while drunk, lent a car to his friends knowing they were planning on robbing someone. During the robbery (miles away from where this guy was, since he was at his house) one of the guys (not his friend, but along for the ride) killed someone. The car-lender was charged with the same crime as the killer under US law which states that he is an accessory and therefore is liable for the same punishment.

This is VERY PUNITIVE - and most countries in the world's common law has specifically removed this type of criminal liability - the US has not. It is a punitive culture. In Canada he would have been told he's a dumb shit and sent on his way.

Now take this to how Americans view Gay Marriage - not legal, not gonna be anytime soon - I'm not gay, but why should I care if Gays get married? I live in Canada and we don't believe in punishing people for disagreeing with what we see as "average" Gay marriage IS legal and recognized in Canada, why not? Who does it hurt? Not me!

Now in the USA if you spill coffee on yourself you can sue for millions of pain and suffering - in Canada, you can't, you are only entitled to costs associated with "making you whole" - like hospital costs (already covered) and extra nursing, not a lottery win.

Overall - in Canada we are willing to be more flexible and tolerant and it results in a more civil society attitudinally.

Now the next BIG diff - we don't have the RIGHT to guns in Canada, they are a privilege, more closely controlled and limited to rifles vs. handguns you can buy in Walmart easily.

Add all of this together and you get Cops who are WAY less scared when they stop people - less likely of getting shot OR sued - and therefore less tense, it makes it easier.

I've been pulled over my share of time, I've never had my hands anywhere specific, or turned off my car, etc. I've never had an issue - I assume I'm right and everything is fine and so does the cop.

My (new) business has us (guys who work with my company) running into cops all hours of the day or night - (we repo LOTs of cars) We always take the attitude we have nothing to hide and we're in the right (which we always are) and the Cops sense that and have never drawn a gun on my boys - even at 3am when they are in a car reported as "stolen" minutes before.

I wouldn't want to do this work in the USA - I'd figure one of my guys would be shot every month - here they're safe!
 
I'll vouch for Stu not being gay anymore. He was my friend, just as he is now, during those years, but i did get a little tired of his leg warmers at meets and his sequened driving shoes.

Never heard him say "my boys" in that context tho.
 
We rarely read of a police officer shooting, tasering or macing people here. The largest part of the reason why, is because they don't have to. I have lived in both countries, and not had any problems with police officers. I did note that American police seem to use their manners, whereas Canadian police will try to control the situation by using an intimidating tone and not use any pleasantries. This is part of their training, not because they are rude. Vocal tone, vocabulary will often go a long way to controlling a situation, so it doesn't get out of hand, and violence is required.

I'm totally comfortable talking to cops in either country. I supose in some areas, the cops are far more defensive, and take an aggressive posture because, based on personal experience or that of their colleagues, they have to.
 
After everything went down in court (I have a couple uncles who are Lawyers) He got in quite a lot of trouble and had to actually give me a face to face apology! That made my day seeing how hard it was for him to do so.


That is beautiful. There should be more of that for sure. I think it would change a officers whole attitude if they thought there was a chance they might have to tell the person they abused "sorry."
 
Now I need to mention that Dave dreams of being handcuffed and roughed up by a man in uniform - so the reasons he's put his big wing on his car are a little obvious to those who know him!

Really, if you want to contrast and compare US and Canada policing, attitudes, etc. Let me take a stab - I will point out I used to run an international marketing company and was responsible for understanding both CDN and American culture on behalf of my clients' brands.

Overall, I would say the US culture is more punitive - they believe that people who do "wrong things" should be punished and those who are innocent victims should be rewarded. What this means is a guy who's breaking a law (any law) gets a stiffer punishment in the USA and a guy who's harmed gets a bigger reward.

Example - in NY they recently upheld the life sentence (which in the USA is really life - in Canada its 10-20 yrs) of a guy who, while drunk, lent a car to his friends knowing they were planning on robbing someone. During the robbery (miles away from where this guy was, since he was at his house) one of the guys (not his friend, but along for the ride) killed someone. The car-lender was charged with the same crime as the killer under US law which states that he is an accessory and therefore is liable for the same punishment.

This is VERY PUNITIVE - and most countries in the world's common law has specifically removed this type of criminal liability - the US has not. It is a punitive culture. In Canada he would have been told he's a dumb shit and sent on his way.

Now take this to how Americans view Gay Marriage - not legal, not gonna be anytime soon - I'm not gay, but why should I care if Gays get married? I live in Canada and we don't believe in punishing people for disagreeing with what we see as "average" Gay marriage IS legal and recognized in Canada, why not? Who does it hurt? Not me!

Now in the USA if you spill coffee on yourself you can sue for millions of pain and suffering - in Canada, you can't, you are only entitled to costs associated with "making you whole" - like hospital costs (already covered) and extra nursing, not a lottery win.

Overall - in Canada we are willing to be more flexible and tolerant and it results in a more civil society attitudinally.

Now the next BIG diff - we don't have the RIGHT to guns in Canada, they are a privilege, more closely controlled and limited to rifles vs. handguns you can buy in Walmart easily.

Add all of this together and you get Cops who are WAY less scared when they stop people - less likely of getting shot OR sued - and therefore less tense, it makes it easier.

I've been pulled over my share of time, I've never had my hands anywhere specific, or turned off my car, etc. I've never had an issue - I assume I'm right and everything is fine and so does the cop.

My (new) business has us (guys who work with my company) running into cops all hours of the day or night - (we repo LOTs of cars) We always take the attitude we have nothing to hide and we're in the right (which we always are) and the Cops sense that and have never drawn a gun on my boys - even at 3am when they are in a car reported as "stolen" minutes before.

I wouldn't want to do this work in the USA - I'd figure one of my guys would be shot every month - here they're safe!

It's not easy to legally get a gun in the US, especially in NY.
 
It's not easy to legally get a gun in the US, especially in NY.

Steve, I'm not disagreeing with you, but you DO need to add the caveat, "ANYMORE"

It was so easy for so many years that at this point there are too many guns floating about - and worse is a casual attitude towards them.

The problem lies in the opinions that people think they need to enforce - "if you break into my home, if you threaten me, etc. I've got a gun" guns are not really deterrents like a-bombs supposedly kept the cold war cold - and even if you try that argument, why did all the countries "test" their bombs a few times, other then to prove, threaten and provoke? (Canada doesn't have the bomb, we rely on the USA to kick anyone's ass who is interested in bugging us)
 
(Canada doesn't have the bomb, we rely on the USA to kick anyone's ass who is interested in bugging us)

We used to be a nuclear power until the mid 60's though. And historically we come to the aid of our friends before the USA. No one would pick on friendly Canada, we are too nice. But if you piss us off, we are the Joe Pesci of NATO.:tongue:
 
Steve, I'm not disagreeing with you, but you DO need to add the caveat, "ANYMORE"

It was so easy for so many years that at this point there are too many guns floating about - and worse is a casual attitude towards them.

The problem lies in the opinions that people think they need to enforce - "if you break into my home, if you threaten me, etc. I've got a gun" guns are not really deterrents like a-bombs supposedly kept the cold war cold - and even if you try that argument, why did all the countries "test" their bombs a few times, other then to prove, threaten and provoke?


I think there is a big misconception that every person in the US has a gun. For me and the people I know it is just the opposite. I would say less than 10% of my friends have a gun legally, pistol that is.

(Canada doesn't have the bomb, we rely on the USA to kick anyone's ass who is interested in bugging us)
My wife doesn't have a gun either she relies on me to protect her. When I need her help she will be there for me, if she isn't well...I still have the gun:wink: :biggrin:
 
I dont know of a single person outside of law enforcement who owns a gun.

There is absolutely no question as to which society has greater guns per capita. Not only is it extremely difficult in Canada to get a gun, if you did have one, all your friends would look at you differently.

I like to believe that there is no reason to own a gun. Not sure if Im naive. The very few times Ive shot guns Ive enjoyed it though.
 
I dont know of a single person outside of law enforcement who owns a gun.

There is absolutely no question as to which society has greater guns per capita. Not only is it extremely difficult in Canada to get a gun, if you did have one, all your friends would look at you differently.

I like to believe that there is no reason to own a gun. Not sure if Im naive. The very few times Ive shot guns Ive enjoyed it though.

It's interesting that some stats show Canadians owning as many guns per capita as Americans. There is a huge difference in the type of weapons we own though. We tend to own, hunting rifles, shot guns, 22s for target practice etc. Americans own high power hand guns, assault rifles, sub machine guns and hunting equipment. We just don't have weapons designed for the sole purpose of taking human life available here.
 
Very interesting comments. We hear a lot about the States, it’s nice to hear from Canada.

Belgium is one of the few countries in Europe where you see gun shops and people can buy a gun.
Very very few people do buy one though. There is no need.

I know police who have never drawn their gun in their entire long careers on the streets. Not once (except for training). But they certainly had the same type of confrontations where, it appears, an American policeman would certainly have pulled his gun, taser, everything.

I saw a guy who had a scuffle with a policeman, south of Liege during a rally, he didn’t want to move back when asked to do so by two policemen.
They argued and he shoved one of the policemen. When the policeman moved in to speak to the guy with some strong words, they ended up scuffling and fell down together and the policeman’s gun unclipped and fell to the ground and into the guy’s hand. They got back up off the ground and were standing there about one or two meters apart, with the cop’s gun in the hand of the guy. He gave it back to the cop (who holstered it) and they continued their discussion.
He eventually moved back as the policemen wanted, and was spoken to by the people around who told him to grown up and get normal and do what the cop asked even though he obviously believed it was safe to stand there and watch the rally (IMO it wasn’t really dangerous there).

Another time, at a rally again, 3 guys where standing next to a building on a corner of the rally stage in a town. The official asked them to move two or three times, they refused saying it was safe where they were.
There happened to be two cops about 50 meters away, the official went over to them and ask the police to tell the guys to move.
The cops did and the guys again disputed that it was dangerous (IMO it wasn’t especially dangerous there either). The cops told them to move, they refused, this argument went on for a few minutes (rally cars came by every minute).
Eventually the cops left the guys there, and walked away.

A very different outcome from what I’ve been seeing in the States on YouTube…

If someone gets pulled over here (and that’s a big if, almost never happens), the cops pull in FRONT of your car and motion to pull over. I guess they would not dare do that in the States.

The cops here are not afraid, even though people will confront them. It seems the cops in the States are scared sh*tless. Definitely not a healthy situation for a society to get itself into.
A case of they made their bed, now they have to sleep in it?

The two times I have been pulled over here in 15 years (and I always drive fast, everyday I go over 160kph -100mph for extended periods and I live near the capital city of Europe, not somewhere in the country side…), one time I was going too slowly (yes slowly, the minimum speed allowed on the motorways here is 80kph), and the other time they asked if they could have a ride in my NSX, so I promptly took the guy on a very quick ride. Neither time did I get a ticket of course.

Anyway, very interesting to hear about the differences in different countries.
 
It's interesting that some stats show Canadians owning as many guns per capita as Americans. There is a huge difference in the type of weapons we own though. We tend to own, hunting rifles, shot guns, 22s for target practice etc. Americans own high power hand guns, assault rifles, sub machine guns and hunting equipment. We just don't have weapons designed for the sole purpose of taking human life available here.


Per capita, I would be suprised if there are similar numbers of LEGITIMATE guns in Canada per person and the US, but I highly doubt that the numbers of ILLEGITIMATE guns per person is anywhere close.

Take hunters out of the equation and look at how many people on your street own guns as personal protection or whatever. That has to be a very different number North and South of the border.
 
Very interesting comments. We hear a lot about the States, it’s nice to hear from Canada.

Belgium is one of the few countries in Europe where you see gun shops and people can buy a gun.
Very very few people do buy one though. There is no need.

I know police who have never drawn their gun in their entire long careers on the streets. Not once (except for training). But they certainly had the same type of confrontations where, it appears, an American policeman would certainly have pulled his gun, taser, everything.

I saw a guy who had a scuffle with a policeman, south of Liege during a rally, he didn’t want to move back when asked to do so by two policemen.
They argued and he shoved one of the policemen. When the policeman moved in to speak to the guy with some strong words, they ended up scuffling and fell down together and the policeman’s gun unclipped and fell to the ground and into the guy’s hand. They got back up off the ground and were standing there about one or two meters apart, with the cop’s gun in the hand of the guy. He gave it back to the cop (who holstered it) and they continued their discussion.
He eventually moved back as the policemen wanted, and was spoken to by the people around who told him to grown up and get normal and do what the cop asked even though he obviously believed it was safe to stand there and watch the rally (IMO it wasn’t really dangerous there).

Another time, at a rally again, 3 guys where standing next to a building on a corner of the rally stage in a town. The official asked them to move two or three times, they refused saying it was safe where they were.
There happened to be two cops about 50 meters away, the official went over to them and ask the police to tell the guys to move.
The cops did and the guys again disputed that it was dangerous (IMO it wasn’t especially dangerous there either). The cops told them to move, they refused, this argument went on for a few minutes (rally cars came by every minute).
Eventually the cops left the guys there, and walked away.

A very different outcome from what I’ve been seeing in the States on YouTube…

If someone gets pulled over here (and that’s a big if, almost never happens), the cops pull in FRONT of your car and motion to pull over. I guess they would not dare do that in the States.

The cops here are not afraid, even though people will confront them. It seems the cops in the States are scared sh*tless. Definitely not a healthy situation for a society to get itself into.
A case of they made their bed, now they have to sleep in it?

The two times I have been pulled over here in 15 years (and I always drive fast, everyday I go over 160kph -100mph for extended periods and I live near the capital city of Europe, not somewhere in the country side…), one time I was going too slowly (yes slowly, the minimum speed allowed on the motorways here is 80kph), and the other time they asked if they could have a ride in my NSX, so I promptly took the guy on a very quick ride. Neither time did I get a ticket of course.

Anyway, very interesting to hear about the differences in different countries.


How does the ticket industry work in your country. Is there any large corporations that would benefit if tickets are written? Does the state benefit from tickets if they are written?
 
Good question. I don’t know.
But it is obviously not a big source of income compared to, say, Holland.

In any case, I would find it very hard to believe any corporations would benefit at all from ticket money. The question would be, does the money go to either of the national governments or provincial governments or the city governments?

There are speed cameras in some places, more in the country of Flanders, very few in the country of Wallonia (being sarcastic here, Belgium is like two countries in one).

Sometimes a camera car can be seen in the middle median of the motorway, but I see them more on the weekend and holidays. I suspect they don’t want to interrupt the driving of people going to work, since people do drive quite fast during the week. Late for work etc.
I guess they figure weekend drivers are fair game and have more time to go slowly.

Getting pulled over by a police car/motorcycle practically never happens, police don’t cruise here. Don’t cruise anywhere in Europe as far as I see (compared to America).

Although, I have been motioned to slow it down after driving fast (like over 100mph). Got to some slow traffic and the cop car caught me and as we were driving side by side they motioned with their hand to slow it down. Once in Belgium and once in Holland, both on the motorway.

The greatest, by far, way to get a fine here is from a speed camera. Luckily I live in Wallonia, where there are very few cameras.

Last I heard, here you don’t get any points on your licence for any infractions.

They do sometimes have drunk driving controls were they stop everybody. Happens to me about once a year. But it is not to ticket, it is for papers, I know this because once I came screaming around a corner and had to break hard to stop at the control. The cops actually jumped away, like in a movie. :biggrin: They checked my papers but only commented that I should slow down a little….
They generally check insurance and papers, sometimes with a breath test, then you go on your way. It’s possible to drive really quickly after that, because you know where all the police are!:wink:
In these situations sometimes cops are standing around with machine guns and assault rifles and flak jackets while normal nice police check papers. Considering there are so few guns here, I guess they just want to get their cool cop equipment out of the closet…
Some controls have only a few normal cops there.

Police on the beat here still don’t wear flak jackets, I see that in England they seem to now wear these. They are mostly for knife attacks, not gun attacks as I understand it. But the police still don’t have guns there, only special armed units.

It’s all very different here, lots of differences between a small area. France is only 2 hours south, they are having riots there. Holland is 1 hour, lots of speed cameras, but no riots. Germany is 1 hour away, no riots and a few cameras, lots of very fast cars. UK is 2.5 hours away, no guns more than a few speed cameras, no riots. Luxembourg is 1.5 hours away, they have a mixer of very slow drivers and very fast. No riots, and very few cameras, if any.
Very different.

I guess tickets are not the thing here, compared to the States.

Any Belgians on Prime have some info on this? What happens to the money here?

Anyway I would certainly get shot, tasered, and thrown in jail if I came to the States. :biggrin: But I thought I might visit Canada next year, its been some years since I was last there.
 
Good question. I don’t know.
But it is obviously not a big source of income compared to, say, Holland.

In any case, I would find it very hard to believe any corporations would benefit at all from ticket money. The question would be, does the money go to either of the national governments or provincial governments or the city governments?

There are speed cameras in some places, more in the country of Flanders, very few in the country of Wallonia (being sarcastic here, Belgium is like two countries in one).

Sometimes a camera car can be seen in the middle median of the motorway, but I see them more on the weekend and holidays. I suspect they don’t want to interrupt the driving of people going to work, since people do drive quite fast during the week. Late for work etc.
I guess they figure weekend drivers are fair game and have more time to go slowly.

Getting pulled over by a police car/motorcycle practically never happens, police don’t cruise here. Don’t cruise anywhere in Europe as far as I see (compared to America).

Although, I have been motioned to slow it down after driving fast (like over 100mph). Got to some slow traffic and the cop car caught me and as we were driving side by side they motioned with their hand to slow it down. Once in Belgium and once in Holland, both on the motorway.

The greatest, by far, way to get a fine here is from a speed camera. Luckily I live in Wallonia, where there are very few cameras.

Last I heard, here you don’t get any points on your licence for any infractions.

They do sometimes have drunk driving controls were they stop everybody. Happens to me about once a year. But it is not to ticket, it is for papers, I know this because once I came screaming around a corner and had to break hard to stop at the control. The cops actually jumped away, like in a movie. :biggrin: They checked my papers but only commented that I should slow down a little….
They generally check insurance and papers, sometimes with a breath test, then you go on your way. It’s possible to drive really quickly after that, because you know where all the police are!:wink:
In these situations sometimes cops are standing around with machine guns and assault rifles and flak jackets while normal nice police check papers. Considering there are so few guns here, I guess they just want to get their cool cop equipment out of the closet…
Some controls have only a few normal cops there.

Police on the beat here still don’t wear flak jackets, I see that in England they seem to now wear these. They are mostly for knife attacks, not gun attacks as I understand it. But the police still don’t have guns there, only special armed units.

It’s all very different here, lots of differences between a small area. France is only 2 hours south, they are having riots there. Holland is 1 hour, lots of speed cameras, but no riots. Germany is 1 hour away, no riots and a few cameras, lots of very fast cars. UK is 2.5 hours away, no guns more than a few speed cameras, no riots. Luxembourg is 1.5 hours away, they have a mixer of very slow drivers and very fast. No riots, and very few cameras, if any.
Very different.

I guess tickets are not the thing here, compared to the States.

Any Belgians on Prime have some info on this? What happens to the money here?

Anyway I would certainly get shot, tasered, and thrown in jail if I came to the States. :biggrin: But I thought I might visit Canada next year, its been some years since I was last there.

Here in the US when you get a ticket you get a fine. The fine goes to the state or county. The real killer is the points that raise your insurance and make the insurance companies rich. If I had to guess the speed limits are mostly enforced by the insurance companies. If you look at the real cost of a 20mph over the limit ticket it is 3k or more with the fine and insurance increase.
 
As a side note, a kevlar body armour won't protect you from a stabbing knife attack. Only slashing, bullets and blunt trauma.
 
Anyway I would certainly get shot, tasered, and thrown in jail if I came to the States. :biggrin: But I thought I might visit Canada next year, its been some years since I was last there.

Come for Est Fest in the spring! Fly into Toronto and we'll get you a ride out to Kingston/Gan!

We'll have Americans and Canadians - make it a fun "contrast and compare" experience!
 
Come for Est Fest in the spring! Fly into Toronto and we'll get you a ride out to Kingston/Gan!

We'll have Americans and Canadians - make it a fun "contrast and compare" experience!
Thanks! :smile:
I might just do that. We are still in the planning phase.
 
I dont know of a single person outside of law enforcement who owns a gun.

There is absolutely no question as to which society has greater guns per capita. Not only is it extremely difficult in Canada to get a gun, if you did have one, all your friends would look at you differently.

I like to believe that there is no reason to own a gun. Not sure if Im naive. The very few times Ive shot guns Ive enjoyed it though.

In 1974, frustrated from being continually broke from racing motor cycles, I started looking for something else to satisfy my competitive instincts....trap shooting was the answer and believe me, to succeed at a high level in the shooting sports takes all the commitment and mental preparation that success in motor sports does. In 1993 at Grand American Handicap I broke 596 targets out of 600 and never made a shoot off!
Shooting enthusiasts are the same dedicated individuals as those in any other sport.

Collecting guns is no weirder than having a building full of cars that never get driven or a cellar full of wine that never gets drunk.

Just as the media and other uneducated critics have created a negative image of gun owners (just read this thread) and certain breeds of dogs and dog sports, now they are starting on fast cars and motor cycles........watch how quickly it spreads.
 
So I made a trip to the gun store down here in Florida. I have to say I was pretty shocked. All you need to buy a pistol is a drivers license. If you want to conceal carry the gun you need to take a 2 hour course offered every Saturday. The store was packed with people. I think it is important to be polite to people in Florida.:biggrin:

BTW...they have taser available too for 400 bucks a pop. One of the guys working behind the counter said to not get a taser. He said if the person is close enough to use a taser on then you might as well use a gun. He said there has not been a case yet where a civilian has used a taser on a civilian and someone has died so it would be better from a liability stand point to just shoot the other person.
 
John- i dont mean to lump skeet and target shooters, and biathwletes and others, into the equation. I'm speaking about gun owners who own the gun solely for the purpose that one day they may feel the need to shoot someone.
 
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