Do you guys think MS may form his own F1 team in the future?
Any chance MS will form a new F1 team?
- Thread starter fannsx
- Start date
Doesn't it cost like millions of dollars to buy an F1 team? Do you really think he can afford it? :biggrin:
I could see him one day running his own team for sure. I don't think he will be out more than a couple years. He will be back in some form or another in motorsports. Whether it be as a owner, or running a team.
I could see him one day running his own team for sure. I don't think he will be out more than a couple years. He will be back in some form or another in motorsports. Whether it be as a owner, or running a team.
Something tells me he'll co-own, or continue to play a major role in Ferrari.
I guess you can co-own and be the driver too, can't you? Did Michael Andretti drive at Indy with his car?
schuey1010 said:
MS's networth is around a billion, so yep, he can afford it. Plus, most of the funding in F1 came from sponsorship. The initial cost will be high.
BUT, he will not do it, not worth the time and efford.
Re: Whoa, whoa, whoa, cowboy
how do you know what he might consider worthy of time and effort at this major cross-roads in his life? Please don't tell us you're applying your view of life and the world to MS.
Re: Whoa, whoa, whoa, cowboy
There are many major cross roads has been chosen and passed.
Obvious for making that statement, you either have no clue, or understand F1 as an organization. The enormous financial obligation without the promise of any return, and backing of a major manufacture - That alone will be the indication that MS is smart enough NOT to enter the sports as a team owner.
F1 101!!!
In case you haven’t figure out F1, you cannot just step in and tell the world “I want to start/have my own team.”
For ANYONE to start a F1 team, including some one with seven driver’s championship, would have to get sponsorship, including cash, pay driver, and engine deal. Alan Prost for example, a three times F1 Champ, lost millions of his own money for having his own team in the name of French pride. No one in France backed him when he couldn't win. That was with Peugeot engine backing during an era when F1 was till within reach for individuals.
Last private team owner, Midland group did not last through one season without having to sell the team to Spyker.
Most likely scenario for MS is to buy out an existing team. The basic cost will be in hundreds of millions to begin with, and if he wants to stay competitive, he will have to lure top engineers/designers from Top Teams. You will also have to prove to FIA and disclose any “rainy day fund.” The only teams that are currently privately own are Spyker, SA, and Williams. He will not be able to get Williams F1 because Frank William is unlikely to sell his team. Spyker will not make sense because the team has no resources (factory, staff, etc), even though they are a small car manufacture. Super Aguri is considered as Honda’s jr. team. Toro Roso is own by Red Bull as their Jr. team.
If MS wants to start his own team, the 13th team on the grid, he will first have to get permission from Bernie Ecclstone. That means he will have scrap/rewrite the Concorde Agreement. The teams will have to approve the addition because they will have to accept the fact that less “TV” money will be allocated to them – A very unlikely scenario.
Let’s say he wait till the end of the current agreement, which will be years from now, F1 costs will be even higher!!!
Let’s say he does get a team, either as a 100% owner or share owner, what would his incentive be if he has to compete with car giants such as BMW, Ferrari, Honda, MB, Toyota, etc.? It has been proven that by having engines from top makers, the car will still not have the competitive edge because they don’t have the right engineering department.
I like to think MS is smart enough to enjoy his money than blow them in a sport that he was good at, as a driver.
However, if he wants to be in Indy or CART, he will do well, because the budget is within his reach.
92 white 0650 said:
There are many major cross roads has been chosen and passed.
Obvious for making that statement, you either have no clue, or understand F1 as an organization. The enormous financial obligation without the promise of any return, and backing of a major manufacture - That alone will be the indication that MS is smart enough NOT to enter the sports as a team owner.
F1 101!!!
In case you haven’t figure out F1, you cannot just step in and tell the world “I want to start/have my own team.”
For ANYONE to start a F1 team, including some one with seven driver’s championship, would have to get sponsorship, including cash, pay driver, and engine deal. Alan Prost for example, a three times F1 Champ, lost millions of his own money for having his own team in the name of French pride. No one in France backed him when he couldn't win. That was with Peugeot engine backing during an era when F1 was till within reach for individuals.
Last private team owner, Midland group did not last through one season without having to sell the team to Spyker.
Most likely scenario for MS is to buy out an existing team. The basic cost will be in hundreds of millions to begin with, and if he wants to stay competitive, he will have to lure top engineers/designers from Top Teams. You will also have to prove to FIA and disclose any “rainy day fund.” The only teams that are currently privately own are Spyker, SA, and Williams. He will not be able to get Williams F1 because Frank William is unlikely to sell his team. Spyker will not make sense because the team has no resources (factory, staff, etc), even though they are a small car manufacture. Super Aguri is considered as Honda’s jr. team. Toro Roso is own by Red Bull as their Jr. team.
If MS wants to start his own team, the 13th team on the grid, he will first have to get permission from Bernie Ecclstone. That means he will have scrap/rewrite the Concorde Agreement. The teams will have to approve the addition because they will have to accept the fact that less “TV” money will be allocated to them – A very unlikely scenario.
Let’s say he wait till the end of the current agreement, which will be years from now, F1 costs will be even higher!!!
Let’s say he does get a team, either as a 100% owner or share owner, what would his incentive be if he has to compete with car giants such as BMW, Ferrari, Honda, MB, Toyota, etc.? It has been proven that by having engines from top makers, the car will still not have the competitive edge because they don’t have the right engineering department.
I like to think MS is smart enough to enjoy his money than blow them in a sport that he was good at, as a driver.
However, if he wants to be in Indy or CART, he will do well, because the budget is within his reach.
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Re: Think bigger
Thank you for so meticulously demonstrating that you have indeed applied your own tunnel vision to the possibilities MS may have at his disposal. Of course he's not going to just buy or start a team with his own puny billion $$$. And that's where you're missing the point; you and I can never start to guess all the incredible opportunities other billionaires are or will be laying at his feet.
You've thrown around a lot of factoids which are generally in the ballpark for 99.999% of the mere mortals who count their time, money and fears as you or I do. But so what? MS has demonstrated that he's not in that category. The man loves a challenge and will find and conquer more than several before he's done. So your logic about what is or is not worth his time and effort is what I chuckle over and take issue with.
What happened to your offer of a bet?
Thank you for so meticulously demonstrating that you have indeed applied your own tunnel vision to the possibilities MS may have at his disposal. Of course he's not going to just buy or start a team with his own puny billion $$$. And that's where you're missing the point; you and I can never start to guess all the incredible opportunities other billionaires are or will be laying at his feet.
You've thrown around a lot of factoids which are generally in the ballpark for 99.999% of the mere mortals who count their time, money and fears as you or I do. But so what? MS has demonstrated that he's not in that category. The man loves a challenge and will find and conquer more than several before he's done. So your logic about what is or is not worth his time and effort is what I chuckle over and take issue with.
What happened to your offer of a bet?
All those coporate sponsors and company endorsemnents MS has ever had in his career can probably easily come up with enough money to start. Of course the legality and politics in FIA can easily turn aganist you if you don't play the cards correctly.
Re: Think bigger
I’ll take you are a MS fan. I’m a Senna fan.
By the way, I like how you quote my posts, ignore the whole and quoting only what you see fit...lol
I can see MS manage a top team, taking over Jean Todt position, or something similar. That will be something for me to look forward to.
Let's take the politics of F1 away from my argument.
As I have mentioned before, perhaps my view is very much tunnel visioned, but like any business decision any one has to make, the business model of having his own team does not make sense. Even if money is not an object, reputation and time commitment sure will be a big concern. I’m sure MS has so much money that he wouldn’t mind have a team with his name. This discussion has been around since a year ago on many sites/forums.
Big name sponsorship is a possibility; I don’t doubt that. Everything is possible. But with large sponsorship, MS will still have to flip a large sum as an initial cost.
If some one is thinking about handing over millions to MS, logic will eventually take over emotion. F1 is a business, and business needs to make sense. Perhaps his name will earn the sponsorship money needed to start his own team. However, if he can get the sponsorship, and if the team doesn’t produce, the sponsorship will not stay. The only thing I can think of is if a manufacture wants to help him and use his team as a jr. team to develop drivers, but even with that scenario, I don't see it happen, since MS is all about winning.
Don't forget, starting next year, tobacco sponsorship is very much gone. That is why EVERY privately owned teams other than Williams are gone (Williams is the only team still with strong resources, but still very limited). I’m afraid if Frank William doesn’t sell his team soon, he may have some serious up hill battles to fight. Last year, he had to sell Button’s contract just to finance the Cosworth engine, and the result of this year was considered the lowest since they started back in the 70’s.
Very few none-tobacco companies will flip the dollar amount required to buy a visible advertisement logo on a F1 car. Teams such as Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc, have been flipping most of their bills. Ferrari will soon join that rank. Even for Honda, a company that still held the record of six consecutive constructor’s championship as an engine supplier - can only get a very small sponsorship dollars -when compared to the entire budget. Most of the small/no name teams are paying for the custom engines. When you have a chance, look for a budget/sponsorship break down for F1 teams. You will be surprise to see how much each manufactures are spending.
Like I said, ten years ago would have been a stronger possibility, even with that, people such as Prost failed, and he was a four time champ, the most since Fangio. Prost may not be as charismatic as MS, but the law of business was not on his side. Most of the small private owners have bailed out of F1.
But anyway, I assumed that since you felt strongly about MS’s chance of success in F1 as a team owner, because he’s got plenty of money and have nothing else to do, I guess I can agree with you. I hope he is as savvy financially as a driver. Few in the world who worked so hard will dump his/her hard earn money into something that just don’t make any financial sense – The stake is high. When a person accomplished that much, the chance for him to loose is greater than gain.
Sure, let's set up a bet with some thing reasonable - Perhaps a timetable and few bucks?
Actually, let’s make this more interesting, since money can be earn after it is lost, and none of us can earn back lost time, how about if I win, you drive all the way down from Sacramento to Huntington Beach and buy me a nice dinner of my choice, and I’ll do the same if I loose?
Win or loose, it will be a good entertainment.
92 white 0650 said:
I’ll take you are a MS fan. I’m a Senna fan.
By the way, I like how you quote my posts, ignore the whole and quoting only what you see fit...lol
I can see MS manage a top team, taking over Jean Todt position, or something similar. That will be something for me to look forward to.
Let's take the politics of F1 away from my argument.
As I have mentioned before, perhaps my view is very much tunnel visioned, but like any business decision any one has to make, the business model of having his own team does not make sense. Even if money is not an object, reputation and time commitment sure will be a big concern. I’m sure MS has so much money that he wouldn’t mind have a team with his name. This discussion has been around since a year ago on many sites/forums.
Big name sponsorship is a possibility; I don’t doubt that. Everything is possible. But with large sponsorship, MS will still have to flip a large sum as an initial cost.
If some one is thinking about handing over millions to MS, logic will eventually take over emotion. F1 is a business, and business needs to make sense. Perhaps his name will earn the sponsorship money needed to start his own team. However, if he can get the sponsorship, and if the team doesn’t produce, the sponsorship will not stay. The only thing I can think of is if a manufacture wants to help him and use his team as a jr. team to develop drivers, but even with that scenario, I don't see it happen, since MS is all about winning.
Don't forget, starting next year, tobacco sponsorship is very much gone. That is why EVERY privately owned teams other than Williams are gone (Williams is the only team still with strong resources, but still very limited). I’m afraid if Frank William doesn’t sell his team soon, he may have some serious up hill battles to fight. Last year, he had to sell Button’s contract just to finance the Cosworth engine, and the result of this year was considered the lowest since they started back in the 70’s.
Very few none-tobacco companies will flip the dollar amount required to buy a visible advertisement logo on a F1 car. Teams such as Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc, have been flipping most of their bills. Ferrari will soon join that rank. Even for Honda, a company that still held the record of six consecutive constructor’s championship as an engine supplier - can only get a very small sponsorship dollars -when compared to the entire budget. Most of the small/no name teams are paying for the custom engines. When you have a chance, look for a budget/sponsorship break down for F1 teams. You will be surprise to see how much each manufactures are spending.
Like I said, ten years ago would have been a stronger possibility, even with that, people such as Prost failed, and he was a four time champ, the most since Fangio. Prost may not be as charismatic as MS, but the law of business was not on his side. Most of the small private owners have bailed out of F1.
But anyway, I assumed that since you felt strongly about MS’s chance of success in F1 as a team owner, because he’s got plenty of money and have nothing else to do, I guess I can agree with you. I hope he is as savvy financially as a driver. Few in the world who worked so hard will dump his/her hard earn money into something that just don’t make any financial sense – The stake is high. When a person accomplished that much, the chance for him to loose is greater than gain.
Sure, let's set up a bet with some thing reasonable - Perhaps a timetable and few bucks?
Actually, let’s make this more interesting, since money can be earn after it is lost, and none of us can earn back lost time, how about if I win, you drive all the way down from Sacramento to Huntington Beach and buy me a nice dinner of my choice, and I’ll do the same if I loose?
Win or loose, it will be a good entertainment.
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How much money did Midland make by buying and selling the team in just one year?
I have limited acces at work to get thjat info, but I think it was a good cunck of change.
I can't agree that there is no money to be made in F1 racing. But it is definitely harder without tobacco sposorship. That business sector has the bucks and I really think the goverement and special interest groups have been unfair to the tobacco industry.
I have limited acces at work to get thjat info, but I think it was a good cunck of change.
I can't agree that there is no money to be made in F1 racing. But it is definitely harder without tobacco sposorship. That business sector has the bucks and I really think the goverement and special interest groups have been unfair to the tobacco industry.
fannsx said:
If I remember correctly, Midland was bought and sold around $200 million. Don't forget, they are basically the last place team on the grid.
As for profit in F1, oh yeah, there are plenty of money to be made in F1, if you do it right, that is why Ron Dennis is so loaded as the majority share owner of McLaren. Eddie Jordan sold his company to Midland and still be able to walked away with millions after paying off debts.
Pretend Owning an F1 team is like owning a beachfront property in Southern California. If you got in long time ago and survived the market, you will be able to cash in walk away laughing. If you want to buy that same property today, few can pick up the tab. At the same time, if you bought that beach front property today, and wish to do some upgrade, practically every thing you do requires city permits, which may not apply 30 years ago.
For example, one of my cigar customer who spends three grand a month on cigars, own a $4 million home in New Port Beach, Ca. His property tax is $45 grand a year. With $1 million down, his mortgage payment is still $20 plus grand a month. He may be able to sell that home for six million bucks in ten or twenty years, but is the equity gain during that period worth the $20 grand a month payment and a annual $45grand property tax?
Therefore, back to the subject, as I have mentioned before, if MS finished his career 10 years ago with the same accomplishment, during an era with less restricted FIA rule/Concorde Agreement, and less costing purchase of a existing team, yeah, MS can easily have a team with his name. By the way, Prodrive and Dave Richard locked in the final "12th" team allow on the grid.
Some will argue that Aguri Suzuki did just that last year. The differences are that Super Aguri has the basic infrastructure already. They own racing team in Indy, JGTC, etc. Now they conduct their F1 team out of the TW factory in London, while with Honda backing and used as Honda Jr. team.
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Ferrari has promoted Jean Todt to CEO, and Schuey has been hired as an advisor. He won't be running an F1 team... he'll be doing his best to help keep Ferrari up front with Massa and Raik...
Who really gives a shit?
Quite frankly I thought the thread is quite entertaining. Probably the most entertaining thread I read on prime today:smile:Hugh said:
Started out with what I wouldn't consider a decent topic (no offense original thread starter), actually turned out to be very informative, decent friendly discussion in correct forum (motorsports).
There is no need to respond to a thread if one does not care about the topic or has no comment.Hugh said:
Re: What happened on Lap 31?
Vancehu, I have not been able to figure out a decent bet given the vagueness of our respective arguments; something about not being able to prove a negative (non-event).
Separate topic. Not being in the F-1 in crowd, I never heard what happened to MS on Lap 31 after he passed Kubica the first time then slowed to test his steering or tires, letting Kubica by. What's the story?
Vancehu, I have not been able to figure out a decent bet given the vagueness of our respective arguments; something about not being able to prove a negative (non-event).
Separate topic. Not being in the F-1 in crowd, I never heard what happened to MS on Lap 31 after he passed Kubica the first time then slowed to test his steering or tires, letting Kubica by. What's the story?
Obviously you don't. But since there is a dicussion here, so some one does:biggrin: Nice dress at NSXPO!!!!Hugh said:
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Re: What happened on Lap 31?
Really? Just out of curiosity… Why are you arguing about this topic if you have no clue regarding the sport?
92 white 0650 said:
Really? Just out of curiosity… Why are you arguing about this topic if you have no clue regarding the sport?
Re: Emphasis on the "in" of "in crowd"
Try to pay closer attention OK? :biggrin:
Just a little good natured jab at the pontification and factoid blizzard Vanechu so dearly loves. But hey, I like to get on a soap box too while smoking a good cigar.
Try to pay closer attention OK? :biggrin:
Re: Emphasis on the "in" of "in crowd"
Dude, you broke my heart.... I though you were a MS fan!!!:biggrin:92 white 0650 said:Just a little good natured jab at the pontification and factoid blizzard Vanechu so dearly loves. But hey, I like to get on a soap box too while smoking a good cigar.
Try to pay closer attention OK? :biggrin:
No, not an MS fan per se, just giving credit where credit is due. In at least one thread on some forum, I was the first to throw him under the bus for Monaco. Like my fellow racers around me on the grid, I may not like him, but I respect him.
One of these days, I will get down there and smoke a cigar with you. :wink:
Re: OK, how about this? MS is a cheapskate
From Reuters:
Only $10 million
From Reuters:
Only $10 million
