american car makers make junk

[whatisreal7]

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4024763&topart=pickups

Top 15 models of cars w/ highest and lowest rates of death. Of the 15 lowest rates of death, 14 are foreign cars. Of the 15 highest rates of death, only 5 are foreign cars.

 

[SilverStone05]

Sad isn't it. The inability of American car makers to get off their buts and finally listen to the consumer is embarassing. FYI Ford lost 7.4 Billion in 2006 and GM lost a staggering 23 billion. That's almost 2 billion a month!!

As far as Ford and GM go, they both need to drastically chop their benefit plans, put some resources into R&D and get rid of at least half their product lines. Their dependence on trucks is going to soon blow up in their face as the price of oil/gas keeps rising. It's sad, but both companies have no sense of identity as all their vehicles are very similar.

One thing that really irks me about Ford is that many of the top execs are members of the family, and the place has just been going downhill. As officers of a public company, their first priority is the value they provide to shareholders. From what I've seen and read, their number one priority seems to be themselves. What a travesty.

Sad to say, but I've never owned an American automobile.

 

[khappucino]

see the bad thing is the technical capability of the domestic car companies is actually pretty good, i mean they make the cup and race cars right.

i think its been more of a problem with the economics of actually changing over to japanese style manufacturing and marketing.

they kind of got protected for a really long time with tariffs on imports back in the 80's and 90's i think.

its kind of like, if your making a huge amount of money, why would you invest in change, even if you see the end looming. until then the new concepts and ideas will have to cross a huge hurdle internally to get any traction.

if they could start over they would be pretty competitive i think.
they just have so much historical inertia its killing them imho.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

I don't see that list as showing USA cars as bad....

Look at the list....the "bad" list reads like a listing of high school kids cars.
I'm sure younger drives drive much much worse then older drivers...and most of the "best" cars are more exspensive. They are also all tiny cars.

 

[White92]

How does the saying go? Something like...

The Japanese make great cars to own. The Germans make great cars to drive. And the U.S. makes neither.

 

[Arshad]

I don't see that list as showing USA cars as bad....

Look at the list....the "bad" list reads like a listing of high school kids cars.
I'm sure younger drives drive much much worse then older drivers...and most of the "best" cars are more exspensive. They are also all tiny cars.

Agreed. Acura RSX is number 2 on the worst list.

Number 1 on the best list is the Chevy Astrovan (and it's not because it's an incredibly well-engineered vehicle chock full of safety innovations)

There may be a correlation, but American vs Foreign engineering/build quality is clearly not the root cause.

 

[flaminio]

I'm not at all pleased to see the RSX at #2 on the list of deadliest vehicles...

(see sig)

 

[zahntech]

The Japanese make great cars to own. The Germans make great cars to drive. And the U.S. makes neither.

If you're going to quote me, at least give me some credit:biggrin:

 

[White92]

If you're going to quote me, at least give me some credit:biggrin:

haha Was that you? I just remember seeing it somewhere and it stuck. I actually use it quite often in my job of selling Acuras. But Acura customers already know it's true.:smile:

 

[Vytas]

The Japanese make great cars to own. The Germans make great cars to drive. And the U.S. makes neither.

They do make something. Disposable cars. They're built to the cheapest standards using crap materials and practically fall apart after a few years. No craftsmanship, cheap build quality, very little resale value and no passion to build great cars. Why the hell would I buy American?

 

[OneRedNSX]

I'm not at all pleased to see the RSX at #2 on the list of deadliest vehicles...

(see sig)

as a former owner of one i'm seriously betting that statistic is based upon high school kids and higher speed crashes...

sad but probably true

 

[NSXLuvr]

Interesting article. I don't know if you can conclude that americans are crappy cars by the article. To me the article shows that cheap, light weight cars are dangerous(probably b/c of the demographics of the people driving them) while heavy, expensive cars are relatively safer. The Astro made it on the list b/c there are only 9 still on the road.:biggrin:

 

[Synthesis]

Sad isn't it. The inability of American car makers to get off their buts and finally listen to the consumer is embarassing. FYI Ford lost 7.4 Billion in 2006 and GM lost a staggering 23 billion. That's almost 2 billion a month!!

and, sadly enough, that is nowhere near enough to fund the war for one month.

oh well, as long as the CEOs are still getting rich.... (why the hell are people so friggen greedy?)

 

[steveny]

Sad isn't it. The inability of American car makers to get off their buts and finally listen to the consumer is embarassing. FYI Ford lost 7.4 Billion in 2006 and GM lost a staggering 23 billion. That's almost 2 billion a month!!

I am sure the manufactures know all of this and my best bet would be those in control are slowing bleeding the company dry and filling their own personal accounts with money. I am just waiting for it to hit the news channels.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

I also own 2 new Cadillac's and they are pretty good cars. Cadillac has their sh!t together in my opinion. While no BMW, they were also quite a bit less exspensive.

I would have no problem buying another Cadillac. I actually might lease a new navigator because #1 they look bad ass, #2 they will do anything to sell me one!

 

[Ko-nsx]

I can speak from experience. ALL THESE CARS ARE MADE THE SAME. I've had several american made cars that have gotten over 100k miles. I am employed by daimler/chrysler (or whoever bought the company)and i work in an assembly plant as an electrician. Build quality is affected by line speed. We can make at least 500 minivans PER SHIFT. Of course that reduces quality. I agree some plastics and other materials are cheap but my 98 dodge caravan with the 3.8L (with 153,000) is just a s good as a toyota sienna. Toyota had the luxury of not having to build 1200 a day. Somebody has to make an affordable car. If the toyota plant made 1200 cars a day there will definitely be some issues. I have an nsx and love it. Looked at the viper and corvette, but the had the same radios as cavaliers and neons. That is what made be balk. I wanted something that was special, hence IMO the nsx.

Also lots of companies use american made cars as fleet vehicles because they are readliy available. You kinda just started seeing camrys and accords as rental or fleet units, because they were to expensive in the past. There used to be a market for american made cars but some people seem to think that the foreign car manufacter's are superior in design and build. I think the Lexus LS460 is an astonishing vehicle, but at 95K, i can get 2 300c SRT-8's. that doesn't mean i don't want a lexus, but damn the average working folk can't afford to put brakes on it. I remember when Hyundai came out, there were really a crappy, but they sold like hotcakes because they were cheap. I drove a hyundai sonata as a rental for a week, it was VERY IMPRESSIVE.

IF YOU DO THE REQUIRED MAINTENANCE ON ANY VEHICLE YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH. Not biased about any car company(most cars are depreciating liabilities), but i just think american car companies are getting a little to much of a beating and a lot of armchair opinions. They are more than capable of making great vehicles, but for the masses just a decent one is ok. Who is responsible for the Pontiac Aztek, the UAW workers?

If the next NSX/HSC were to come out tomorrow, at a price of 115k, there would only be a handful of buyers that could afford it, thats why there won't be another one.

 

[Big_nate]

I don't see any correlation between your thread title and that article. I guess by your rationale the Chevrolet Astro is the greatest vehicle ever made?

 

[steveny]

If the next NSX/HSC were to come out tomorrow, at a price of 115k, there would only be a handful of buyers that could afford it, thats why there won't be another one.

For 115k I would be one of the first in line, especially if the car looked like the HSC concept.

 

[steveny]

I can speak from experience. ALL THESE CARS ARE MADE THE SAME.

The same only after the foreign manufactures spend time and money on R&D then the American manufactures copy their design. Name one innovative part designed solely by an American manufacturer that was then copied by a foreign manufacturer? The American manufacturers really need to come up with some fresh ideas and designs.

 

[zahntech]

Re: American car makers make junk

I love 98 Dodge Caravans..they are great!!...I really like it when you drive one in heavy rain or through a mud puddle and the Drive belt falls off on the road!!! :tongue:

Here is a copy of the Service Bulletin


Serpentine Belt - Loss of Power Steering Assist
Notes

Number: 07-02-99

Group: Cooling

Date: June 4, 1999

SUBJECT:
Serpentine Belt Slips Off Idler Pulley

OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves replacing the bracket that the idler pulley attaches to.

MODELS:

1996 - 1999 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1996 - 1999 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)

NOTE :THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 3.3L OR 3.8L ENGINE.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Loss of power steering assist and occurs when driving through deep snow or standing water.

Snow or rain can enter the engine compartment from underneath the vehicle and force the serpentine belt oft of the idler pulley.

DIAGNOSIS:
Visually inspect the serpentine belt and idler pulley to determine it mis-alignment exists (If the serpentine belt is off the pulleys install the serpentine belt). Start the engine and let it run for one minute before checking alignment). The belt should be approximately 2mm (0.08 in.) from the inboard edge of the idler pulley (Figure 1) when alignment is correct and this bulletin does not apply. If the belt and pulley appear as in Figure 2, perform the Repair Procedure.

PARTS REQUIRED:

1 04612412 Bracket, Engine Mount
AR (1) 04861322 Belt, Serpentine

REPAIR PROCEDURE:

THIS REPAIR IS COMPATIBLE WITH DAIMLERCHRYSLER'S MOBILE SERVICE PROGRAM AND DOES NOT REQUIRE HOISTS OR OTHER FULL SERVICE FACILITY SPECIAL EQUIPMENT.

1. Remove the serpentine belt from around the idler pulley by rotating the tensioner clockwise (Figure 3).

2. Remove the purge duty cycle solenoid and wiring harness from the right side engine mount.

3. Remove the two right side engine mount insulator vertical fasteners and loosen the horizontal fastener. DO NOT remove the large nut in the center of the core of the insulator (Figure 4),

4. Remove the load on the engine mount by carefully supporting the engine with a floor jack.

5. Remove the vertical and horizontal fasteners from the engine side bracket. Remove the engine mount assembly.

6. Remove the idler pulley from the engine mounting bracket. (Figure 3).

7. Remove the engine mounting bracket

8. Install a new engine mounting bracket. Torque the fasteners to 40-68 Nm (30-50 ft lbs.).

9. Install the idler pulley to the engine mounting bracket. Torque the fastener to 40-68 Nm (30-50 ft lbs.)

10. Properly route and position a serpentine belt onto all pulleys except the idler pulley (Use a new belt if there is any evidence of damage to the original one).

11. Rotate the belt tensioner clockwise until the belt can be installed onto the idler pulley. Slowly release the belt tensioner.

12. Install the engine mount; torque the assembly in the following order, engine mount to rail fasteners 68 Nm (50 ft. lbs.), vertical fastener 102 Nm (75 ft. lbs.), and horizontal fastener 150 Nm (111 ft. lbs.).

13. Install the purge duty cycle solenoid to the engine mount.

14. Start the vehicle and let it run for one minute then turn the engine off.

15. Verify the serpentine belt is properly aligned (Figure 1).

16. If the serpentine belt has moved toward the outboard edge of the idler pulley, further diagnosis will be required.


POLICY: Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.

TIME ALLOWANCE:

Labor Operation No: 07-20-20-96 0.7 Hrs.

FAILURE CODE: P8 - New Part

 

[White92]

I can speak from experience. ALL THESE CARS ARE MADE THE SAME. I've had several american made cars that have gotten over 100k miles. I am employed by daimler/chrysler (or whoever bought the company)and i work in an assembly plant as an electrician. Build quality is affected by line speed. We can make at least 500 minivans PER SHIFT. Of course that reduces quality. I agree some plastics and other materials are cheap but my 98 dodge caravan with the 3.8L (with 153,000) is just a s good as a toyota sienna. Toyota had the luxury of not having to build 1200 a day. Somebody has to make an affordable car. If the toyota plant made 1200 cars a day there will definitely be some issues. I have an nsx and love it. Looked at the viper and corvette, but the had the same radios as cavaliers and neons. That is what made be balk. I wanted something that was special, hence IMO the nsx.

Also lots of companies use american made cars as fleet vehicles because they are readliy available. You kinda just started seeing camrys and accords as rental or fleet units, because they were to expensive in the past. There used to be a market for american made cars but some people seem to think that the foreign car manufacter's are superior in design and build. I think the Lexus LS460 is an astonishing vehicle, but at 95K, i can get 2 300c SRT-8's. that doesn't mean i don't want a lexus, but damn the average working folk can't afford to put brakes on it. I remember when Hyundai came out, there were really a crappy, but they sold like hotcakes because they were cheap. I drove a hyundai sonata as a rental for a week, it was VERY IMPRESSIVE.

IF YOU DO THE REQUIRED MAINTENANCE ON ANY VEHICLE YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH. Not biased about any car company(most cars are depreciating liabilities), but i just think american car companies are getting a little to much of a beating and a lot of armchair opinions. They are more than capable of making great vehicles, but for the masses just a decent one is ok. Who is responsible for the Pontiac Aztek, the UAW workers?

If the next NSX/HSC were to come out tomorrow, at a price of 115k, there would only be a handful of buyers that could afford it, thats why there won't be another one.

I have to disagree with this. I don't think that build quality is 100% affected by how fast it's put together. I'm sure it has something to do with it, but not much. I think R&D plays a HUGE part in this.

Honda will spend several years perfecting something before it's ever even shown at an auto show. Then it's usually a few more years before it's put into production. I've seen Chrysler vehicles at auto shows that are thrown into production the next year. Then there's recall after recall issued because the general public seems to be doing the R&D and working out all of the kinks.

Every manufacturer uses plastic for the interiors. Having been around Honda's all of my life, I've been spoiled by fit and finish. There's alot to be said about fit and finish. The way the dash pieces meet, the way the window and a/c switches feel, the way the seats hold you and aren't just a place to put your butt. The way the door shuts. I could go on and on. The cars aren't all the same. I look for all of the little details when buying a car.