All the talk about V8-V10... How much?

[Attitude Adjuster]

Okay,

We've seen extensive talk on V8 vs V10... Pros and Cons... We've also seen previous posts on price.... Well now that Honda has made this announcement and a projected date, what do you think the price will be??? Will it be... OR Wil it be...:tongue:

KJ

 

[rickysals]

I'm thinkin 480HP, 0-60 4.2sec, and $120,000 (strictly guesses)

 

[BD]

I'm thinkin 480HP, 0-60 4.2sec, and $120,000 (strictly guesses)

My guess

5.0 LIter V10 with 550 HP @ 9,900 RPM redline
0-62mph (100km) in 3.6 seconds, 1/4 Mile in 11.2 seconds, and top speed of 201 mph

$129,900.00 plus gas guzzler, luxury tax, and dealer's premium of $50k

lol, if they don't do that kind of number, they wouldn't beat the V8 Ferrari. Porsche Turbo, or Ford GT. And those are the target cars.

 

[NeoNSX]

We've had plenty of other speculation threads... and they've produced the same results: speculation.


If Honda does a V10, it needs to be able to tango with other V10s like the Carrera GT and the Gallardo... otherwise it will be seen as inferior. So it needs to go beyond the magical 500hp mark.

Now what does HP have to do with price - everything. Because if they are targetting that kind of performance market, take the Gallardo's price and the HSC will be somewhere 15-30% below that. At least that's what a friend of a friend of an aquaintence who works at Honda told me.

 

[BD]

We've had plenty of other speculation threads... and they've produced the same results: speculation.


If Honda does a V10, it needs to be able to tango with other V10s like the Carrera GT and the Gallardo... otherwise it will be seen as inferior. So it needs to go beyond the magical 500hp mark.

Now what does HP have to do with price - everything. Because if they are targetting that kind of performance market, take the Gallardo's price and the HSC will be somewhere 15-30% below that. At least that's what a friend of a friend of an aquaintence who works at Honda told me.

In a way, HP rating is nothing, but it's everything. Don't forget, NSX was already underpowered in 1991 with 270, the package give it an upperhand. The S2k on the other hand, came out with the highest hp in it's class alone with M roadster in 2000. If they power to weight ratio work as a package, it shouldn't need the high HP rating, but if they want the car to stay a float two years after the introducion, they have to do something to make it way ahead of the competitors. F430 had 80 plus hp gain because of Gallardo and Ford GT, so you know the competition is stiff.

 

[gheba_nsx]

It's good for Honda to such focused fans willing to pay (?) over 120k for it!

I may be... but I say a realistical 75k$!

PS: Gallardo performance for 15% less money? I can imagine the looong queues at Honda's dealerships around the world! Sorry Neo I couldn't resist!

 

[fox32223]

FYI....I spoke with the sales manager at Acura of Orannge Park Florida today and he has been told it will have a mininum 500 HP and price has not been determined yet. It will have AWD and he says the high hp will be though a supercharger.

He tells me that AOP sells more NSX's than any other dealer in the US, I can't confirm this but, he does claim to have the very last 2005 NSX off the assembly line. It's #215. He is suggesting that since they sell so many NSX's they have the insideside track on the next model.

Is this true?

 

[BD]

He's full of himself. If you go to the link under "Something I read," Mr. Uehera, project leader disclosed the Prototype Engine is already rated @ 500 ps, which means that in three years time, it should have more. No one has the actual prodction information on the car, perhaps due to the fact that it doesn't exist yet. Therefore, that was a bad statement by the dealer, and just another "I know because we sell more." I dont' even think American Honda knows what's going on, because it is a top secreat. Maybe a year or so when they start to test prototype, and have some spy photos, we can all keep on guessing, including that saleman from the FL dealer.

 

[NSXGMS]

FYI....I spoke with the sales manager at Acura of Orannge Park Florida today and he has been told it will have a mininum 500 HP and price has not been determined yet. It will have AWD and he says the high hp will be though a supercharger.

Is this true?

Uhh, no.

A supercharged V10? OK

 

[1HOT NSX]

My guess is neither a V8 nor a V10 and it won't be a replacement for the NSX. It will be a cheaper sports car that will compete with the Boxster. Perhaps a V6 at 350HP and in the 65 to 70K range.

Hang on to your NSX, there will never be anything like it again!:biggrin:

 

[NeoNSX]

In a way, HP rating is nothing, but it's everything. Don't forget, NSX was already underpowered in 1991 with 270, the package give it an upperhand. The S2k on the other hand, came out with the highest hp in it's class alone with M roadster in 2000. If they power to weight ratio work as a package, it shouldn't need the high HP rating, but if they want the car to stay a float two years after the introducion, they have to do something to make it way ahead of the competitors. F430 had 80 plus hp gain because of Gallardo and Ford GT, so you know the competition is stiff.

Nicely put. I couldn't agree more with you about the HP game; those of us who have driven an NSX realize it has more power than you could use on the street... and all the other factors like handling make the NSX still competitive today (to a degree). But it's the HP numbers that count in the end... this is what reviewers point out first, and what consumers talk about. It's just like this with computers... his 3.4GHz AMD must be faster than my 3.2GHz P4 with HT because the number says so.

 

[NSXGMS]

Nicely put. I couldn't agree more with you about the HP game; those of us who have driven an NSX realize it has more power than you could use on the street... and all the other factors like handling make the NSX still competitive today (to a degree). But it's the HP numbers that count in the end... this is what reviewers point out first, and what consumers talk about. It's just like this with computers... his 3.4GHz AMD must be faster than my 3.2GHz P4 with HT because the number says so.

Yes, absolutely true...

as long as the new NSX goes around the track as quickly as the 430 or ZO6, that's all that matters. If Honda can do that with 350 HP, so be it, but that probably won't cut it at 2900 lbs. The NSX never pretended to be anything other than a track car.

And, as previously discussed, Honda can't be concerned with the reviews and marketing with this car. It will never be considered a sales success. The NSX is never going to look competitive on paper; it never did (well, maybe in 1990)

It appears we have no reason to doubt Honda will replace the NSX, as Honda's president has continued to reiterate. Moreover, it seems there's more serious talk from Honda confirming the V10, and I cannot see the V10 in anything but an NSX replacement at $80K-100K.

With as little info as we get from Honda, if no new NSX prject were on the horizon, we would not have the president making the comments as he has done thus far.

 

[BD]

Yes, absolutely true...

as long as the new NSX goes around the track as quickly as the 430 or ZO6, that's all that matters. If Honda can do that with 350 HP, so be it, but that probably won't cut it at 2900 lbs. The NSX never pretended to be anything other than a track car.

And, as previously discussed, Honda can't be concerned with the reviews and marketing with this car. It will never be considered a sales success. The NSX is never going to look competitive on paper; it never did (well, maybe in 1990)

It appears we have no reason to doubt Honda will replace the NSX, as Honda's president has continued to reiterate. Moreover, it seems there's more serious talk from Honda confirming the V10, and I cannot see the V10 in anything but an NSX replacement at $80K-100K.

With as little info as we get from Honda, if no new NSX prject were on the horizon, we would not have the president making the comments as he has done thus far.

I agree with you, in fact, Honda is the record holder in winning percentage in F1 for amount of races participated. Even though the public Ferrari is, but they're not. Honda knows they have the ball on their side of the court when the new NSX is introduced, I'm sure they feel more superior to Ferraris in Auto manufacturing in every aspect and they have greater resources than all of them. All this talk about of "over $120 grand in pricing will not help the sales of the NSX," what people didn't realize is, it will be very easy for Honda to make a FR car based on the S2k with a V6 engine that can take on most of the Euro entry exotics for less than $60 grand (as pointed out by most of the auto publications, there are more space under the hood of S2k to accommodate a V6). The NSX must be in the league of Gallardo/F430 or it will not fly. Forget 911, exluding F40/288GTO, TT cars will never be considered as a true Exotics, because it is consider as "cheap power," that is why Ferraris, Zonda, Lambo, etc. continue to offer only NA cars. As you all know, the performance of the F430 is basically in the same league as those $400k SLR/Carera GT, and all Honda needs to do is step up a notch, and $120K will look like a bargin when compare to those two cars.

I'm excited; I can't wait… $3 grand a month into my savings account for three years should be sufficient: I want to have my current NSX and its replacement in my garage, it will be an awesome sight.

 

[Doc C]

My guess is neither a V8 nor a V10 and it won't be a replacement for the NSX. It will be a cheaper sports car that will compete with the Boxster. Perhaps a V6 at 350HP and in the 65 to 70K range.

Hang on to your NSX, there will never be anything like it again!:biggrin:

I thought the prez of Honda confirmed a V-10?! Surely he wouldn't say something like that and retract it later. Plus, I think a new S2000 with a few more horses would compete with the Boxster easily. The NSX should be competing with the best in the world (F430,Carrera GT,Gallardo etc) and not the Boxster. I think a V6 with 350HP for 65-70K would get trounced. The new Infiniti GT-R will have 400+ horsepower and cost 70K. Not to mention the ZO6 vette with 505HP for 70K and a 911 for 75K with 355HP. Just my $.02!!
:smile:

 

[effer]

Don't forget, NSX was already underpowered in 1991 with 270, ...

I don't think so, just compare with hp numbers of Ferrari 328 and 348, and the comparison will get much worse if you consider power to weight ratio...

The NSX was underpowered when the F355 came a few years later, Honda should have increased the NSX power to the same level as this Ferrari...

Always interesting anyways to read you Vancehu you are a real NSX enthousiast!

Cheers!

P.S. Cool! My 500th post!!!

 

[BD]

I don't think so, just compare with hp numbers of Ferrari 328 and 348, and the comparison will get much worse if you consider power to weight ratio...

The NSX was underpowered when the F355 came a few years later, Honda should have increased the NSX power to the same level as this Ferrari...

Always interesting anyways to read you Vancehu you are a real NSX enthousiast!

Cheers!

P.S. Cool! My 500th post!!!

lol, NSX had 270hp, and 348 had 300hp... But anyway, if you quote a little more, you will see what I ment about the "package" just as you described. But anyway, yeah, 500 plus hp and I'm ready for it. Bring it on!!!! I want those VTEC Ponnys under my right foot!!! Ferraris can eat my dust!

 

[effer]

lol, NSX had 270hp, and 348 had 300hp...

Within 10% in a lighter package; if you believe F numbers ( which I do not ), a negligible difference largely compensated with its broader torque curve, VTEC and its ability to high rev quickly.

Just integrate ( mathematically speaking ) its torque curve and take into account the NSX engine quickness to reach its 8,3k rpm ...

So the NSX engine is undoubtedly more powerful than this 300hp F engine thus not underpowered. Q.E.D.

The NSX engine is such a gem it explains why Honda didn't upgrade it when the F355 came out; the NSX was still competitve against it on the track not the mention its dailydriveability but we are both agreeing on this point.

I just can't wait too for a more than 500 ponies next NSX...

Regards,

Effer

P.S. BTW you didn't talk about 328 hp numbers!

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Okay,

We've seen extensive talk on V8 vs V10... Pros and Cons... We've also seen previous posts on price.... Well now that Honda has made this announcement and a projected date, what do you think the price will be??? Will it be... OR Wil it be...:tongue:

KJ

Whatever, as with anything, eventually the cost will come down.

Thinking farther ahead, sometime around 2010 we'll get to read about the very first civic with the new awesome V10 swap on the cover of Super Street. :biggrin:

 

[BD]

P.S. BTW you didn't talk about 328 hp numbers!

Because NSX came out in late 1990, and 348 came out before that. Therefore, NSX automatcally out class the 328. But anyway, I agree with you, as I have always said, the package on the NSX is much better, therefore, it's a faster car, in fact it is even on par with the Testarossa. The NSX engine was most left untouched was mostly due to the HP restriction law in Japan, that is part of the reason why it stay that way, the NSX R however, was dyno more than 300hp with the "R" treatment, with polished intake and more, but was only published at 280ps.

BTW, I think the NSX replacement will have more than 500ps, way more, posiblly more than 550ps, Honda have already proved 110 or more hp/liter is achieve-able, therefore, to make the package even more valueable, compare to the Z06, it will have more. And they have three more years for developement will give them enogh time to do it.

 

[effer]

... in fact it is even on par with the Testarossa.

So true! A nice example how weight can dilute performance ...

... The NSX engine was most left untouched was mostly due to the HP restriction law in Japan, that is part of the reason why it stay that way,...

Unfortunately! But I always asked myself why they were so reluctant to offer a 280ps + version for international market...

... the NSX R however, was dyno more than 300hp with the "R" treatment, with polished intake and more, but was only published at 280ps.

Bastards! :smile:

I even read that some reviewers ( Sam M. just to name one ) felt the R Type had more than 350ps!

Like Ferrari we must not believe their hp numbers but for the opposite reason! :biggrin:

...
BTW, I think the NSX replacement will have more than 500ps, way more, posiblly more than 550ps, Honda have already proved 110 or more hp/liter is achieve-able, therefore, to make the package even more valueable, compare to the Z06, it will have more. And they have three more years for developement will give them enough time to do it.

I hope so much it is going to be true!

As I wrote before, 125 hp/L is easily feasible and they should introduce right at the start a 590 hp version which could be designed to support a couple of power ugrade within 8 years ( one every four years ).

As I wrote also before, I was the first guy here to interpret that the saying of Honda to let down the HSC as the NSX replacement could mean the venue of two midengine sportcars: an affordable HSC @ 350hp and a real halo car.

I think Honda were proud of the HSC and committed themselves pretty seriously about it but were forced to change theirs plans about it due to mitigated opinion about this package.

So I think we will get best of both world:

an affordable HSC outperforming any stock NSX at a much lower price,

a Japanese super car made witout any local power restriction agreements! Ouch!

This is going to look very bad for Italians and Germans...

Concerning its price definately under the 100k mark ...

Cheers!

 

[blavenia]

Just my .02, if GM can get 130HP/Ltr out of the new Solstice GXP with a turbo, Honda can easily match or at least meet with much better reliability and desirability.

 

[NSXGMS]

I think Honda were proud of the HSC and committed themselves pretty seriously about it but were forced to change theirs plans about it due to mitigated opinion about this package.

I could believe that...

I could believe that Honda was ready to move forward with the 350HP, 2900 lbs. HSC full steam ahead but quickly and WISELY pulled back when the earth-shattering performances of the 430 and Z06 were readily apparent.

Perhaps this was not Honda being intimidated, reluctant, or resigned. This, in fact, was Honda planning the ultimate vengeance, having the last laugh in 2008. Perhaps Honda is so intelligent even they forsaw the HSC to be a total flop in the market for themselves and a thorough disappointment to those who are loyal to the NSX, feeling they would let us down. :biggrin:

They'll come blasting out in 2008 with 550 HP 2700 lbs, 3.5 0-60, 11.5 1/4, 1.05 skidpad Gs all for $98,990!!!

We can only dream, huh :wink: