Alignment Spec

[1sikryd]

Hi,

I have an 02 NSX and I want to run an agressive alignment spec without having to change tires every 5k miles. What's a good compromise? Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance for all your input.

 

[SilverStone05]

Unfortunately, there is no good compromise. Aggressive camber=bad inner tire wear.

 

[L8apex32]

Hi,

I have an 02 NSX and I want to run an agressive alignment spec without having to change tires every 5k miles. What's a good compromise? Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Thanks in advance for all your input.

The stock alignment can be made a little more aggressive by reducing the toe in in the rear. However, this will add a little power-on oversteer that you may have to get used to. It should give you better tire wear in back and perhaps a little better efficiency (fuel efficiency, top speed, etc).

 

[Coz]

I'm running this right now per my alignment sheet and the tire wear so far is doing great.
Also seems to work pretty well on the track.
Was told this was a happy medium....

Left front:
Camber -0.9
Caster: 8.1
Toe: -0.15

Cross Camber: -0.1
Cross Caster: -0.6
Total toe: 0.32

Right front:
Camber: -0.9
Caster: 8.2
Toe: -0.15

Left Rear:
Caster -2.1
Toe: 0.13

Right Rear:
Camber: 2.2
Toe: 0.14

Total toe: 0.28
Thrust angle: 0.02

 

[1BADNSX]

I'm running this right now per my alignment sheet and the tire wear so far is doing great.
Also seems to work pretty well on the track.
Was told this was a happy medium....

Left front:
Camber -0.9
Caster: 8.1
Toe: -0.15

Cross Camber: -0.1
Cross Caster: -0.6
Total toe: 0.32

Right front:
Camber: -0.9
Caster: 8.2
Toe: -0.15

Left Rear:
Caster -2.1
Toe: 0.13

Right Rear:
Camber: 2.2
Toe: 0.14

Total toe: 0.28
Thrust angle: 0.02

This looks good as long as:
- I'll assume the right rear camber contains a typo (negative, not positive)
- and the toe numbers are listed in degrees (these values would be too high if they were in inches)

Bob

 

[titaniumdave]

I like .1 degree total toe out on front, toe in on rear. This really saves the tires and makes for more stable threshold braking.

I have been running -2 degrees camber front, -2.6 degrees rear. Track tires (RA-1) wear very flat.

I just had the alignment re-done with my new eccentric mono-ball pivots, now have -3 degrees front camber, -2.8 degrees rear! I will shred the street tires, but with the new 1000 lb front springs and 1 1/8" front sway I should get screaming fast turn ins!

Always remember alignment is specific to tires, springs, sways and dampers. All these work together, so change one thing at a time, document the change and then make the second change. Each is also individual to your taste, different folks have different likes and dis-likes. Try other folks cars and see what you think...

 

[nsxtasy]

Keep in mind that camber and toe can both have an effect on tire wear.

My suggestion is to keep the camber at the stock specification. If you track your car and find that your tires are wearing out a bit more along the outside edges, consider setting it at the most negative end of the specified range (as I recently did).

As for toe, remember that the rear is where tire wear is usually a concern, and where toe can help. Acura originally specified 6 mm of rear toe for maximum handling, then changed it to 4 mm when people complained about tire wear (this helped tire wear, with a slight detriment to handling precision). If you want even better tire wear and don't mind giving up some handling, you can set the rear toe to 2 mm or even zero.

I have an 02 NSX and I want to run an agressive alignment spec without having to change tires every 5k miles. What's a good compromise?

Where to make the trade-off is a matter of personal preference. I care mostly about handling so I have mine at 6 mm, but see above for other settings.

Also, 5K miles is typical treadlife for rear tires, so even with Acura's recommended 4 mm, you might not get any more than that. Front tires usually last 2-3 times as long as rears, so the fronts should last longer than that no matter what you do.

 

[1BADNSX]

I like .1 degree total toe out on front, toe in on rear. This really saves the tires and makes for more stable threshold braking.

Toe-in provides stability. Less toe-in in the rear should be less stable under braking.

 

[titaniumdave]

Toe-in provides stability. Less toe-in in the rear should be less stable under braking.

This is only true on a perfectly smooth surface where both rear tires have exactly the same amount of grip. From me experience, real track conditions are less than perfect and the the closer the wheels are to being pointed the same direction the better when you are at the limits of adhesion. Granted, this is more true on the front than the rear and is not the true at lower braking forces where the toe creates stability.

 

[1BADNSX]

This is only true on a perfectly smooth surface where both rear tires have exactly the same amount of grip.

All I know is adding rear toe-in to the rear of my racecar helps stabilize trail braking a lot. During trail braking, each side of the rear has significantly different amounts of grip.

Bob

 

[titaniumdave]

All I know is adding rear toe-in to the rear of my racecar helps stabilize trail braking a lot. During trail braking, each side of the rear has significantly different amounts of grip.

Bob

I agree in trail braking situations this could be true. If you can trail brake at threshold you are a better driver than I can dream of being, good job!

I am talking about straight line threshold braking in an NSX street car driven on the track. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I agree in trail braking situations this could be true. If you can trail brake at threshold you are a better driver than I can dream of being, good job!

I am talking about straight line threshold braking in an NSX street car driven on the track. Sorry if I was unclear.

Dave, do you have going into T2 at PR in mind?? With your mad driving skills and your car's mods, the R wing won't do... YOU deserved a big Rice Wing...
BTW, just got back from PR yesterday, NT01 kicks ass, this is the 2nd time i had the tire, it's way way better than RA1 yet it's as forgiving (if not more) at the limit.

 

[2slow2speed]

Always remember alignment is specific to tires, springs, sways and dampers. All these work together, so change one thing at a time, document the change and then make the second change. Each is also individual to your taste, different folks have different likes and dis-likes. Try other folks cars and see what you think...

Ditto..

Add the non-compliance bits as well, once I had the Comptech non-compliance toe links as well as SOS non-compliance bushings installed on the rear end of the NSX, I used to run the NSX with zero rear toe without any issues with threshold braking as well as trail braking into turns with the NSX.

 

[2slow2speed]

Dave, do you have going into T2 at PR in mind?? With your mad driving skills and your car's mods, the R wing won't do... YOU deserved a big Rice Wing...
BTW, just got back from PR yesterday, NT01 kicks ass, this is the 2nd time i had the tire, it's way way better than RA1 yet it's as forgiving (if not more) at the limit.

Once you get used to driving with a Big Rice Wing, it's hard getting used to driving without one

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Once you get used to driving with a Big Rice Wing, it's hard getting used to driving without one

and who lurked me into the dark side again??:biggrin:

Ken, look at post #23 http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89581 , you'll be prouded.

 

[vtecjulio]

I'm running this right now per my alignment sheet and the tire wear so far is doing great.
Also seems to work pretty well on the track.
Was told this was a happy medium....

Left front:
Camber -0.9
Caster: 8.1
Toe: -0.15

Cross Camber: -0.1
Cross Caster: -0.6
Total toe: 0.32

Right front:
Camber: -0.9
Caster: 8.2
Toe: -0.15

Left Rear:
Caster -2.1
Toe: 0.13

Right Rear:
Camber: 2.2
Toe: 0.14

Total toe: 0.28
Thrust angle: 0.02

what tire and wheel size are you running with these specs? Also how much did you lower your car?

 

[steven0720]

what tire and wheel size are you running with these specs? Also how much did you lower your car?

same here, i match up the rear specs but the best i can get for front camber is -.6