Alignement, what do you think of this setup ?

Joined
1 June 2005
Messages
832
Location
Switzerland
I installed Tein Flex last winter. This summer I didn't had time to have an alignment done. Next week I will adjust the height of the car (it's a little bit low now). Then I will have my alignment done.

As I didn't had my alignment done when fitting the Flex, I drove with a pretty big camber, especially at the rear. But this hasn't been an issue with tire wear which I think is sufficient (7-8 kmiles on the rear tires with 1 track event).

This year, I am going to try R tires on stock 15'-16' wheels. So I think an aggressive alignment (but a little bit streetable) would be nice. What do you think of the following :

Front

Camber : - 2.5 to - 3.0° each
Toe out : + 0.05° each (0.1° total)
Caster : ~8°

Rear

Camber : - 3.0 ° each
Toe in : - 0.06° each (0.12° total)
 
I installed Tein Flex last winter. This summer I didn't had time to have an alignment done. Next week I will adjust the height of the car (it's a little bit low now). Then I will have my alignment done.

As I didn't had my alignment done when fitting the Flex, I drove with a pretty big camber, especially at the rear. But this hasn't been an issue with tire wear which I think is sufficient (7-8 kmiles on the rear tires with 1 track event).

This year, I am going to try R tires on stock 15'-16' wheels. So I think an aggressive alignment (but a little bit streetable) would be nice. What do you think of the following :

Front

Camber : - 2.5 to - 3.0° each
Toe out : + 0.05° each (0.1° total)
Caster : ~8°

Rear

Camber : - 3.0 ° each
Toe in : - 0.06° each (0.12° total)


This, if I remember correctly, translates into TOE IN at the front and TOE OUT at the rear. Is that what you intend?
 
I'd run a little less camber in the rear than what you run up front. Negative 2 in the rear with negative 2+ or more in the front is what I would try for. Toe settings look ok.
 
Looking just at numbers without knowing anything else about your suspension makes it hard to say, as sway stifness, setting of shocks & spring rates, a persons knowledge of how what effects what, and even tire compounds and pressures, all make a difference, not to mention whether you plan to autocross, roadcourse, offroad.....ok not the last one :)

Initial response is that if you are putting this much effort into your suspension, doing track event, etc., then I will run on the assumption you are smarter than the average bear in this area. But, with the 1 track event last year info, I assume I need not talk about push, snap oversteer, throttle steering, neutrality, etc.,, and please, do not think this is talking down to you, because if you want to learn what these feel like, we will get you there later.....I say what they fell like, not what they are, because you gotta be able to drive and feel them to tune the car in tight. Ok....

The rear camber is quite a bit more than you need to keep the car planted when everything else is tuned in as well.....anything over negative 2.5-2.6 is just tire eater.

Caster effects yaw angle, and that is one thing that effects turn in response.....but the stock caster setting are good, when the rest is also right.

Toe. This gets fun! We (the hard core track junkies and instructors) argued the hell outta this one in the late 90's and we eventually agreed to disagree. Some say you need tow, becasue it stabilises the rear end....I say, some of that is true. Lets take it in two parts, front and rear....Here comes the mini toe siminar.....

What does toe do for us? It pre-loads the suspension components by trying to drive the wheels in slightly none parallel lines. The rear tires are tying to come into each other, thus loading positively, the front tires are trying to drive away from each other.....think of a giant pair of hands pulling the tires apart, thus stretching all the suspension components in the front, and compressing them in the rear.

Toe in, in the rear plants the rear end and raises the grip limit for conering, BUT it also sets the snap release point high, but when you find it...by by baby, your end to end.....reducing the tow in allows the rear to lossen at a lower grip limit, thus allowing one to get a telegraph message that hey, the rear end is loosening, thus giving one time to respond, or even use this as and advantage in getting the car really balanced, and easy to do whatever the driver wants it to do.....4 wheel drift, oversteer, understeer...you choose, depending on the corner. Ohhh, it also saves loads of money on tire wear!

Front in Toe Out gives the car crisp turn in off a stright line, and extremely fast reponse...one thing the NSX got famous for.

So, do we need toe??? I say, no, not in the rear, but this is a progressive reduction...not a step change....take it out slowly learning the cars different personalities along the way. Then you decide which one you like best. I like some tow out in the front, as it keep the car crisp....but I have back off some from the 0.005.

I turned faster lap times in no toe rear cars, with much more comfortable laps, in which the car can be contolled at all levels, not just driven fast always leary of the max grip snap limit. Well, the passengers never thought of them as comfortable, but I did! :)

I hope this helps get you started.
 
I felt more was better than less in this case....plus, we are just back from the holidays here north of you in Scandinavia, so I was/am a bit bored at work. :) Good luck.
 
Sounds good. Best of luck, and feel free to ask for more info whenever needed.

BTW, the NSX suspension is an absolute work or art of engineering. There is almost zero settings dynamics in the top to bottom travel which makes it a pleasure to drive. Some so called sports cars can have drastically different suspension settings, even after everything is tightened and set, simply as a result of the geometry of the suspension components in relation to one another as the suspension travels from its upper most to lower most positions.

An example that comes to mind is the older MR2, in which the rear camber can be seen shifting from -1.5 while resting, all the way into the positive 1.0 range under hard braking and forward wieght shift. Now if one adds turning to hard braking at the same time, otherwise known as trailbraking, then the predictibility of the car is zero, and it gets real scary at times.

Anyway. We do not have to worry about such things. BTW, you planning to get in on the European Tour we are planning? See here....http://www.nsxevent.eu/index.php
 
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