Advice on MP3 formats?

[Lud]

I am going to rip all my CDs to MP3 format. I found a great program called Easy CD-DA Extractor. You just put an audio CD in your computer and it pulls all the CD info (artists, title, date, track names, etc) off the Internet and encodes all the tracks as MP3 files in the directory and file name structure of your choice, then ejects the CD. The whole process only takes a few minutes per disc.

Anyway my problem is that I have a lot of CDs so I only want to do this once, but I'm not sure which MP3 format has the best file size while still giving me the quality I want. This program gives you tons of choices, such as various fixed bitrates, average bitrates (ABR), variable bitrates (VBR) of 0 (best) to 9 (worst), etc. I've looked around on the web a bit but everything I found so far either glosses over the details or is so bogged down in technical jargon and algorithims that I don't really get much out of it.

I know 256kb/s fixed rate files sound great to me, 192kb/s is OK but not ideal, and 128kb/s is not acceptable for my purposes. Of course I'd like to get fixed 256kb/s quality in a smaller file size if possible using ABR or VBR. From what I read Variable seemed better than Average but I'm not sure if that was just one guy's opinion, or if it depends on the content being encoded, or what. Anyway I encoded the same song in several different formats and here's what I got:

Size KB -- Encoding
=========================
7,877 -- VBR 0 (best) setting
7,838 -- ABR 250kb/s
7,757 -- Fixed 250kb/s
6,465 -- VBR 1
5,818 -- Fixed 192kb/s
5,470 -- ABR 175kb/s
5,216 -- VBR 2
4,849 -- Fixed 160kb/s
4,655 -- ABR 150kb/s
3,958 -- VBR 3
3,879 -- Fixed 128kb/s

Short of spending hours encoding various songs with various settings and playing them back on various systems, is anyone here enough of an MP3 guru to know that a certain VBR or ABR level is typically comparable to 256kb/s fixed rate?

And yes, I want to stick with MP3 format. Suggestions? Advice?

 

[NSX-Racer]

Lud, you should first test the file (the CD with the file) converted with variable bit rate in any mp3 capable CD player and mp3 player you have or want to use. Sometimes there are compatibilty problems.

I personaly convert all my audio files in 128kps mono or 256 kps stereo with fixed bit rate - never had a problem with my customers.

A direct listening comparison (and a memory comparison) between a fixed bitrate and your variable bit rate steps is nearly impossible because it highly depends on the audio material you're converting.

 

[NSX_Dreamer]

Jonathan from iRiver should definitely know.

Lud - can you also make your mp3's available on NSXPrime so we can drive fast to it?

just kidding

 

[PHOEN$X]

I recommend Exact Audio Copy and LAME. Here are some links explaining why they're considered the best tools for the job, and how to use them:

Creating Amazing MP3s
Exact Audio Copy (EAC) Tutorials
Guide to Ripping & Encoding CD Audio
Exact Audio Copy; CD Ripper, why it is the best

Here's a free MP3 ID3 tag editor for windows:

http://idfree.sourceforge.net/

Have fun ripping!

 

[Lud]

NSX-Racer -- I didn't know there could be compatibility problems with VBR, thanks for that tip!! I guess I will just suck it up and encode them as fixed 256kb/s for now unless anyone has more insight. Man, that's going to eat up a lot of storage space. Next thing you know I'm going to have to add a rack-mounted media server downstairs!

 

[Lud]

PHOEN$X thanks for the links, I'll read them this evening.

The program I've been playing with uses the LAME engine and sounds like it has some features similar to the Exact Audio Copy program, and it does the ID3 tags by pulling the CD and track data off some database somewhere on the Internet, but I'm definitely open to changing software at this point.

Have you done this? If so how did you end up encoding everything?

 

[PHOEN$X]

Hi Lud,

You may want to read this then:

MP3 Encoding FAQ

I've been using EAC (w/LAME encoder) ever since I discovered it. It has all the functionality you described, and more. It's extremely easy to use once configured, with just a couple of clicks it can: 1) extract the tracks from a CD, 2) retrieve the ID3 tags from freedb.org, and 3) call LAME to perform the MP3 compression.

As for the (LAME) encoder setting that I use, I've been very happy with the "--alt-preset standard" as specified here:

List of recommended LAME settings

From what I understand, that setting is so well tuned that most audiophiles can't tell the difference between an encoded MP3 and the original source CD. Unless you have extremely sensitive ears (and audio equipment!), using a higher bitrate is overkill IMO.

As for compatibility issues, I've yet to encounter any player (hardware or software) that had any problems with the MP3s I've ripped.

If you are curious about MP3s (or Audio technology in general), you can visit hydrogenaudio for further reading.

BTW, here's something else you might want to download for your software library:

mp3Trim - free tool for editing your MP3s without degrading sound quality. I haven't tried it yet (just found out about it yesterday), but it sounds useful.

Good luck!

 

[gheba_nsx]

I did the same and I used FIXED 192k. The quality is very good (with 128k and my home system I was able to hear the difference, in the car or on a lower end system they sound the same).

No VBR is defintely a plus... for example my syster DVD player does not support VBR correctely.

I used Audiograbber and LAME for the encoding.


PS: I tried hard to check (and wanting to ear it!) to ear a difference between 192k and 256k and I was really not able at all. Even with "reference audio tests".

 

[Jimbo]

Lud,

If you're sticking with MP3 I'd stay with the 256K fixed. Although....You might want to do a test (if possible) on your equipment regarding VBR. I don't have a problem with VBR and it's more efficient. If it turns out that there's no issue then I'd suggest 320K VBR.

Hydrogenaudio is a good resource.

-Jim

PS: I've recently switched everything over to AAC. Very nice.

 

[NeoNSX]

Ditto Kelvin's advice.

I've found CBR-160Kb the MINIMUM if you want to encode high-quality audio with surround sound. Any less and the rear channels get truncated. So if you want to be on the safe side, go 192Kb. Anything higher and it's almost impossible to distinguish any quality loss (assuming you use a quality encoder like LAME)

Another problem with VBR is that even players that support it can give an inaccurate bitrate estimate. (ie. 172Kb when the peak is 192Kb) They can also give an inaccurate track length (ie. player says track is 10mins, but it's only 6mins ... annoying stuff like that)

 

[gheba_nsx]

It seems we agree Neo, 192k CBR is the way to go!

 

[NeoNSX]

Hey Gheba, you rock buddy!


For the record, tonight i ripped a full 80minute CD for my iRiver mp3 player and encoded at 192Kbit VBR. So i did it at CBR for comparison sake for Lud;

100MBytes 192Kbit VBR
106MBytes 192Kbit CBR

Not much different if you're worried about the nusiances I listed above.

 

[Jonathan]

My $0.02...my encoded CD collection is at 192kbps/WMA.

VBR can cause some issues with playback, some devices and applications may have trouble indicating the track time or even have difficulty playing them at all.

If you are an Apple user at home, WMA obviously isn't a good choice, but for compression and quality, I prefer 192 WMA over 192 MP3, AAC will run you into a host of compatability problems if you do not stick exclusively to the Apple solution.

Since you did mention you will be sticking with MP3, 192kbps MP3 is a decent solution, although my vote would be to go with 256kbps CBR, it's a lot easier to get more storage in the future than to re-encode your entire collection again, better to aim high.

Jonathan