Advantages & Disadvantages of a lightweight flywheel compared to stock?

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1 April 2002
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762
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Alameda, CA, USA
I currently have a 92 NSX with a Junn lightweight flywheel with Japanese short gears and Davis race clutch. The car drives great but I was curious if this setup gives me an advantage or disadvantage when I track my car and when I run my car in the 1/4 mile. Please explain the part about inertia. Thanks.
 
Originally posted by Litespeeds:
I was curious if this setup gives me an advantage or disadvantage when I track my car and when I run my car in the 1/4 mile. Please explain the part about inertia. Thanks.

Rotating mass takes energy to spin it from one RPM to another. Therefore, it takes power from the engine that could otherwise be used to accelerate the vehicle.

The significant measure of rotating mass is called the mass moment of inertia. To keep it simple, weight is bad, but weight farther from the center-of-rotation is much worse. The mass moment of inertia is measured by the mass (weight) multiplied by the distance between the weight and center of rotation squared. For instance if you had a weight of 10 pounds mass, 5 inches from the center of rotation, its' mass moment of inertia would be 10 lb x 5 in x 5 in = 250 lb in^2. That same 10 pounds only one inch from the center of rotation would only have a mass moment of inertia of 10 lb in^2 (96% less). This is why lower diameter flywheels are an issue and heavy larger wheels can have an effect.

When you were a child you may remember playing on hand pushed marry-go-rounds. Kids would stand on them and other children push to get them spinning. You may also remember that it was much harder to push when there were more kids on the marry-go-round and they stood near the edges.

Now for the NSX stock flywheel. I am told the NSX stock flywheel has a mass moment of inertia of 280 lb in^2 and I used this value in these calculations. Let me warn, the effect of rotating mass is not constant for RPM or road speed. In other words, the effect in 1st gear is different than second, and in any gear the effect changes with speed. This is why, if anybody quotes a given horsepower savings measured on a dyno, it is not accurate because chassis dynos DO NOT simulate accurate transients. They measure horsepower at the wheels just fine, but they can not measure the effect of a lightened flywheel, tires, or wheels. They will measure a difference, it just isn't accurate. But it is easy to calculate the difference.

From simple calculations the stock NSX flywheel (280 lb in^2) takes 10-20 HP to spin it while accelerating in 1st gear. In second gear it takes about 5 HP. In 3rd gear it takes 2-3 HP. Therefore, if your lightweight flywheel had half the stock flywheel mass moment of inertia, you could save half the above values. To me, this would be more significant in a 1/4 mile run where the launch and 1st gear is very important. On a road course, not as important.

You might wonder why 1st gear is so much larger? The NSX engine spins from idle to 8000 RPM in less than 4 seconds in 1st gear. It takes a lot of power to spin this mass to high RPM very quickly. In 4th gear, the NSX flywheel takes 10-20 seconds to go from 6000 to 8000 RPM, therefore, much less power required.

Bob
 
Thanks for the detailed explaination Bob. The reason why I asked is because someone actually told me that my car would be faster in the 1/4 mile if I had the stock flywheel. That didn't sound right to me as the heavier stock flywheel would require extra horsepower to get it spinning. Unless somehow the extra weight of the stock flywheel helps after 1st gear?
 
The only disadvantage I can think of is the effect on driveability. Because the engine will spin up so much quicker, matching the engine speed to the appropriate speed for launching or changing gears becomes a little more tricky. However, now that the engine can spin up faster, you can complete rev matched downshifts and toe-heel downshifts so much faster. It really gives the car a sportier feel that makes it even more enjoyable to drive.

Regards,
-- Chris

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Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520
 
This is where a degree in music really shows its limitations. However, I did notice that we haven't mentioned the "[D]isadvantages of a lightweight flywheel compared to stock", as per the topic heading. Also, why didn't Honda simply design the car with a lighter flywheel?
 
Originally posted by ChopsJazz:
This is where a degree in music really shows its limitations. However, I did notice that we haven't mentioned the "[D]isadvantages of a lightweight flywheel compared to stock", as per the topic heading. Also, why didn't Honda simply design the car with a lighter flywheel?

Isn't what Chris said what you are looking for?
The only disadvantage I can think of is the effect on driveability. Because the engine will spin up so much quicker, matching the engine speed to the appropriate speed for launching or changing gears becomes a little more tricky. However, now that the engine can spin up faster, you can complete rev matched downshifts and toe-heel downshifts so much faster. It really gives the car a sportier feel that makes it even more enjoyable to drive.
Regards,
-- Chris


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Gary Yates
1995 Red/Tan Boooleevard Cruzer
1992 White/Black Track Rat
2002 Red and White Cooper S - for sale, please inquire
 
Originally posted by Daria:
Bob's explanation is excellent. I would also like to hear his explanation on the correlation between a lighter flywheel and loss of torque?

Why would there be a loss of torque? Neophytes often stall vehicles with lightweight flywheels not because of loss of torque but rather the reduced stored energy. At a given idle speed, a lightweight (lower moment) flywheel will have less stored energy than the stock one, so you have to adjust your clutch engagement and throttle input accordingly. BTW, in some cars (e.g., E36 M3) the lightweight flywheel can results in a bit of a rattle.
 
Originally posted by Daria:
I would also like to hear his explanation on the correlation between a lighter flywheel and loss of torque?

Number9 explained this very well. Some 1/4 mile racers may like the extra stored rotational energy of a heavy fly during launch, but if the engine is already strong enough to overpower the tires, I don't see how there would be any advantage. Because after the launch, rotating the extra mass can only hurt you.

One side note. It really bugs me when folks say any mod like this increases the throttle response. As Chris pointed out, it only increases the throttle response in nuetral. When the vehicle is accelerating, unless the clutch is slipping, the throttle response is limited by how fast the car can accelerate.

Bob
 
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