Acura MDX vs Honda Pilot

[akira3d]

Okay, I'm doing something I'd swore I wouldn't do...consider buying an SUV. I've narrowed my choices down to Acura's MDX (with Touring Package) and Honda's Pilot (EX-L). I test drove both, preferred pretty much everything from the ride, handling, and quality of the MDX...but like the price, value, and practicality of the Pilot (if only I could find one at or less than MSRP).

My interest in an SUV is two-fold...it will be a vehicle that I'll be taking on many snowboarding trips (especially this season since I got a season pass for Mammoth) and potentially a family vehicle (no plans for kids in the immediate future).

Whichever SUV we choose, it WILL have to be parked outside, most likely will replace the Civic as my daily driver, and will be neglected by comparison to our meticulously cared for cars.

That said, my wife and I decided that we've gotten spoiled by our luxury cars. Forget the leather versus fabric interior question...even the Pilot's leather interior looks cheap (I hate the interior color options I've seen thus far). But we can't deny that the Pilot better fits the bill of our intended use...the MDX just seems to nice to "trash".

So what would you guys do? Settle on the more practical Pilot or just go for the MDX?

If I do decide to buy one of these, does anyone have any dealership recommendations in the area? Preferrably ones with non-pushy salespeople, no markup, and more flexibility when it comes to options (I hate the we've-already-tacked-on-everything-so-we-can-charge-an-arm-and-a-leg-over sticker-mentality I've come across thus far). Scott Robertson Honda's salespeople turned me off with their ignorance and pushiness. Santa Monica Acura seems just as bad as the worst Honda dealerships. Actually, I was treated so poorly that I feel like complaining about both of these dealerships to American Honda....and I should add that I pulled into both dealerships in my NSX!


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--akira3D
'00 Acura NSX-T (red/black), '97 Honda Civic HX (black), '01 Lexus IS300 (black/black)
"Reality is better than the dream..."

akira3d.com/nsx

 

[cojones]

am told the Pilot's suspension is actually more refined (better), and is better value

Can either one tow an NSX on an open trailer ?? They are rated at 4500 lbs (for a boat), or 3500 lbs otherwise.

 

[Zanardi 50]

If I were you Akira, I'd take the MDX over the Pilot. IMHO the buit quality is just not 'there' in the Pilot, hence the price difference.

As for dealers, First call Kirk (forgot his last name) of Acura 101 West in Calabasas (a block norht of Red Robins if I'm not mistaken). Really nice and easy-going guy, willing to accept reasonable offers. Or you can try Acura of Pasadena. Michelle is probably the nicest salesperson I've ever dealt with. Thomas is cool too. Either one of them will work with you on your purchase.
Last but not least, try Sierra Acura to see if they are willing to soften up on pricing (most of the time they aren't so flexible with a hot, in-demand item like this one.) The only reason (well, 2 reasons actually) I'd bother with this dealership is the sales rep that works there: Minh Do (The nice young guy who sold me the Z #50) and Robert Swapp (My ex-shooting range buddy/ex cop from the good 'ole days-trustworthy as well). And tell them both that Bill Lee sent you!
Good luck!

 

[huckster]

quality wise i dont think you can go wrong either way. i drove the mdx but just couldnt do it after being the in the much bigger escalade.

just a thought; you can buy a preowned bigger luxury tank for much less than most people think. the reason i suggest 'bigger' is only because we made the mistake of buying a tl, then having kids and trading it in. Now my wife wouldnt have anything smaller than the range rover(which can be bought used <40k miles for 30k$). she'd really like a suburban!! if kids are a possibility in the near future might be something to consider.

 

[cojones]

Originally posted by huckster:
Now my wife wouldnt have anything smaller than the range rover(which can be bought used <40k miles for 30k$).

a used V8 Range Rover is my choice as well

 

[DocL]

I just purchased a used Pre-Certified Touring MDX for about the price of a new Pilot. It was an impulse purchase, but I'm glad that I got the MDX. The Pilot looks like a big CRV to me. It really doesn't stand out like the MDX, but then again, if you're looking for utility the Pilot is probably better. Both share the same platform and engine, but if you decide to load up the Pilot with options you're in the same price range as the MDX. I have noticed a few quality control problems with the MDX, but really no big deal. The only gripe that I have is the lousy gas mileage. I have not been able to get better than 16mpg, and that's driving it like an old man, cruise control set at 80, and not even getting into V-Tec. I know it's a much bigger vehicle than my NSX, but with my NSX I constantly shift at redline and I always get 19-22mpg! Overall, It's a great SUV, and I think that quality of the interior, and exterior styling is one of the best outh there.

If you have any other questions feel free to e-mail me. I hope this has helped a little.

 

[NyC NsX]

my brother in law was looking at the same two vehicles .... the mdx and the pilot both have waiting list .The mdx was 1500+ msrp on average here in nyc while there were numerious dealers selling the pilot for msrp .... well the wound up getting a pilot because of the price diff.

 

[huckster]

welll, now that you brought it up, i was gonna buy the mdx as my workmobile when i traded in the tl. HORRIBLE experience. my tl was 14 months old, from the same dealer, and they didnt want it back. shot me straight wholesale on it when of course i paid retail, and then insisted i pay full sticker for the mdx. when i pointed this out, they shrugged their shoulders and said, "we've got over 100 tls, and the mdx is hot". so of course i said, you just lost a customer, who was coming straight back to you after 14 months, but you chose to 'put down' the value of the car YOU sold me last year AND make full sticker on a new car that is just as hot as the tl was when i bought it. Oh yeah, they also wouldnt let me drive one. they said you had to buy it to drive it, even though they did have one for sale on the showroom floor.(a customer had backed out of the sale)

i've driven one since and thought it was nice---but not exactly my cup of tea. Too much of a 'car' hybrid. prefer the truck-ishness of the escalade, and the range rover. but then again i grew up on a farm so i like/am used to big vehicles.

 

[akira3d]

Thanks for all the feedback. We've already pretty much decided that we didn't want anything bigger or smaller than the MDX or Pilot...so they are the ideal choices for us. The real struggle comes from deciding whether we like the luxury qualities of the MDX enough to justify the price diff over the Pilot (and the dealership mentality of Acura over Honda)...and whether or not we could feel detached enough to not treat a luxury SUV as we treat our other luxury cars.

 

[G-man]

Originally posted by akira3d:
Thanks for all the feedback. We've already pretty much decided that we didn't want anything bigger or smaller than the MDX or Pilot...so they are the ideal choices for us. The real struggle comes from deciding whether we like the luxury qualities of the MDX enough to justify the price diff over the Pilot (and the dealership mentality of Acura over Honda)...and whether or not we could feel detached enough to not treat a luxury SUV as we treat our other luxury cars.

Eric, Glad to see that you are finally considering "stepping up" to an Acura MDX. I bought one of the first ones in VA back when they were first available. We put money down back in August 2000 at the Acrua roll out for current Acura owners (at that time due to my recent 2000 Acura NSX purchase). The Acura dealer here even borrowed my NSX for the opening. I got my car in Februray of 2001 and now have 37,000 miles on it.

It has been a FANTASTIC vehicle. I got the Touring w/ Navigation and the vehicle is nothing short of amazing. At the time my biggest gripe was that the NSX interior was MUCH nicer leather quality, but having spent more than a year and a half in the MDX now, it is the best vehicle in its class IMHO. Many of you who know me will realize that in the last 3 years I have owned 8-9 cars (I lose track) but all that time I have still managed to keep the MDX handy. I think you will like it.

As far as towing the NSX, I actually checked into that and got confirmation from the Customer Service guys at Acura. I purchased the optional towing package that equips a tranmission cooler and an oil cooler as well as the hitch and wiring to get the job done. If you consder that that an NSX is typically 3,200 lbs, and a featherlight trailer is not more than 500-600 lbs, then you have a total of about 3,700-3,800 lbs. You are allowed to use the "BOAT" weight of 4,500 lbs with the factory towing package as long as it is with a light OPEN trailer. The 3,500 weight assumes a FULLY ENCLOSED trailer that is big and bulky, like a U-haul. There is also a CONSDIERABLE safety factor built into it for the US due to litigation. It seems they have a 500-1,000 lbs reserve just in case.

Can you blame them given the whole Ford Explorer / Firestone deal.

Well, I would go for the NSX/MDX combo. you will like it. Enjoy.

------------------
Gordon G. Miller, III
2000 NSX-T #51 Yellow/Black

 

[Da Hapa]

A few thoughts.

As others have stated previously, the MDX and Pilot are virutally the same vehicle. They share the same drivetrain, same suspension, and many of the same goodies. The Pilot is actually a bit wider inside than the MDX but the MDX has nicer luxo goodies.

This is important to keep in mind because both vehicles are built alongside one another and therefore there's no reason to assume that either vehicle will be better built than the other.

From what I've seen the Pilot can be purchased pretty easily for MSRP here in S. CA whereas many Acura dealers are still charging MSRP + for the MDX. The price differential can be pretty staggering (nearly $10 large depending on how you outfit the two vehicles ((i.e. MDX touring vs. Pilot EX-L)) and that would be pretty important to me as I expect residuals to be similar.

I would also really emphasize the dealership experience. One thing I've learned with S2000 ownership is that there can be a significant difference between service at the avg. Acura dealer vs. the avg. Honda dealer. Let's just say this. My wife used to get much better service and attention to detail with her $17K Integra at either of the two dealerships that she used than I do in my $32K S2000 at all but one dealership that I go to. That might mean nothing to you, and it might mean everything.

If you're serious about either vehicle, I'd recommending giving Dan Dixon at Honda of the Desert a call. I'm sorry that I don't have his phone # handy but I used him when I purchased my second S2000. I got the car for MSRP (when very, very, very few dealers in S. CA where doing that) in the color I wanted and it was delivered to my office with the plastic still on it (proper break in is essential to the S). I would highly recommend giving him a call as he was selling MDX's for MSRP even back then (February 2002) and I can vouch for him being a straight shooter. He's in Palm Desert and he's the internet manager for a commonly held Toyota, Honda, and Acura dealership.

Good luck, they're both great trucks, IMO.

 

[akira3d]

This is important to keep in mind because both vehicles are built alongside one another and therefore there's no reason to assume that either vehicle will be better built than the other.

My impression after thoroughly inspecting both vehicles are that they're both quality vehicles...the Pilot simply looks cheaper.

From what I've seen the Pilot can be purchased pretty easily for MSRP here in S. CA whereas many Acura dealers are still charging MSRP + for the MDX.

I've encountered exactly the opposite:

MDX:
South Bay Acura (Torrance) and Santa Monica Acura: MSRP but with tons of options already thrown on to drive the price up

PILOT:
Miller Honda (Culver City): $3000 markup

Honda of Hollywood: $3000 markup and tons of options thrown on to drive the price up

Scott Robertson Honda (Torrance): $3995 markup and tons of options thrown on to drive the price up

Santa Monica Honda: I think they had a $4000 markup

Airport Marina Honda: $5000 markup and tons of options thrown on to drive the price up

Let's just say this. My wife used to get much better service and attention to detail with her $17K Integra at either of the two dealerships that she used than I do in my $32K S2000

This is a definite concern...since we've had a wonderfully annoying service experiences (including simple oil changes) at three different Honda dealerships.

If you're serious about either vehicle, I'd recommending giving Dan Dixon at Honda of the Desert a call.

Thanks for the recommendation...this is the kind of thing that I want to hear. I'm willing to give my business to someone who's out of area if the experience can be satifying (I've already decided not to give any of the above Honda dealerships my business if I decide to go for the Pilot...including Scott Robertson, where I had a good experience buying my Civic).

Good luck, they're both great trucks, IMO.

As you can tell from the number of dealerships I've visited, I'm getting quite serious about the Pilot. I've now seen all the color combinations except for the one that I think my wife and I will like most (evergreen with saddle leather interior). We're starting to warm up to the grey interior, which we initially felt looked cheap on the silver Pilot (it looks better in the black or red exteriors).

As I've said before, the MDX certainly looks and feels nicer...but, for my purposes, a luxury SUV seems like overkill...and the Pilot is DEFINITELY cheaper even with the markup.

It's funny, I've never been willing to pay MSRP before, but I'm actually hoping to walk out the door with a Pilot EX-L at MSRP (I think it would work out to roughly $32,000 with the options I want).

And I still can't believe I'm considering buying an SUV...

[This message has been edited by akira3d (edited 26 August 2002).]

 

[Da Hapa]

Akira -

Glad I could help.

I think Dan can help you out no matter what you decide (Acura vs. Honda). As I stated earlier, he did us right and was very, very good to work with and had great follow up even though he knew I wasn't bringing my car back for servicing, etc. Hopefully, he'll treat others (including yourself) as well.

BTW, I hear you on the angst with the SUV ownership. When we bought my wife (then fiance) her Lexus we seriously considered the MDX (no Pilot back then and as much as we like the RX300, the MDX is a better value, IMO). I just couldn't pull the trigger on that much $$, for that big a vehicle, that get's that crappy gas mileage (relative to what we did buy), when it was only the two of us and we don't even own a dog. My wife really wanted an SUV (or so she thought). In the end, we made the best decision for us, but I think the time is rapidly coming (when we buy our next house and/or get a dog) when we'll make that move.

Good luck and let us know how you come out.

PS - You've got a beautiful NSX. I'm very jealous. Someday, with a little luck, and some understanding from my wife I'll have one to go alongside my S2K.

 

[huckster]

i hate to say it, but if you want a great dealer experience/pampered treatment---better buy a lexus. more likely to get that at lexus than acura. unless you happen to have a great acura dealer near you.

i'd personally buy the mdx if i wasnt getting screwed on the price. i would not be willing to pay over the msrp--which in itself has a nice dealer profit built in. the mdx does have the better overall amenities packages. the pilot is also nice when loaded up---from financial perspective i'd take a base mdx over a loaded up pilot if the loaded pilot was within 4-5k price wise of the base mdx. ('loaded pilot' sounds like a news headline, doesnt it)

one last thought---within 1-2 years i'd expect the mdx to drop dramatically in value. the combination of new models from competitors and mdx production will soon put a sock in those overcharging dealers. that is another reason i didnt buy a 40k$ mdx.

hope im wrong...good luck with decision

 

[akira3d]

i hate to say it, but if you want a great dealer experience/pampered treatment---better buy a lexus.

I know what you're saying. We enjoyed more good Lexus dealer experiences when we were looking into buying my wife's IS300 than we've had with Acura when researching the MDXs. Unfortunately, we find the RX300 too small and luxurious for our needs. That said, I had a very positive experience with the Acura salesperson that sold me my NSX...so a good experience with one could easily push me back to the MDX.

I'm going to move forward slowly on this purchase as I really have no immediate need for an SUV. I look at this as a vehicle of conveniences, one that I'd only consider if the price is right...by no means are they the must-have items that they seem to be for many. And I have been sure to let the dealers know that.

A couple of the dealerships have told me the same thing regarding the Pilot EX-L color combination that I'm considering: that evergreen with saddle leather won't be available until sometime in September. I can wait to see it in person before I start talking numbers with them...

 

[insx]

Here in Bay area,
Mike Harvey Honda want $3000 over MSRP.
I wouldn't buy over MSRP for a mass produced SUV.
The 2002 Mercedes G500 SUV (2000-3000 imported to US/year)that I bought last year don't even have a mark up.
Also I would buy the MDX over Pilot because I feel there is enough suspension, handling and comfort differences to justify upgrading from Pilot to MDX.

I love GREEN exterior

just like my NSX



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--
'94 NSX Brooklands Green Pearl/ Onyx
- 9k miles
- GruppeM Intake & Exhaust V.3
'01 M3 Laguna Seca Blue/ Grey

 

[DocL]

Originally posted by huckster:
...one last thought---within 1-2 years i'd expect the mdx to drop dramatically in value. the combination of new models from competitors and mdx production will soon put a sock in those overcharging dealers. that is another reason i didnt buy a 40k$ mdx.

hope im wrong...good luck with decision

Actually, you are wrong in this case. The MDX is holding it's value so well, that used one's are going for almost the same rate as new one's, even through a private party. Just take a look at some for sale in the autotrader and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I haven't had one second thought on the purchase of my MDX, and it was an impulse purchase.

 

[insx]

Hi Dr.Lane,
How much you got for your MDX?
what year and mileage?
What is the options?
I like MDX too.

Thanks

 

[khuezee]

Originally posted by akira3d:
My interest in an SUV is two-fold...it will be a vehicle that I'll be taking on many snowboarding trips (especially this season since I got a season pass for Mammoth)

I am a snowboarder too!!! we should definitely hook up this season. i have an F 150, so we can switch off and stuff.

 

[huckster]

Dr. Lane, i was actually predicting a drop in value in the Next two years. they have held remarkably well as evidenced by the new mdx demand. this crystal ball prediction is that the mdx will soon be 'old' news and supply will exceed demand, driving values down. still two years out, but to be expected IMO.

 

[cojones]

new MDX has 260 hp motor (up from 240 hp)

Pilot has same motor, with 240 hp

Brochure differentiation, or does the +20 hp actually result in improved performance. MDX torque is up too, in the 250 ft-lb range.

 

[DocL]

Sorry for the very long delay guys. I picked up a 2001 Silver/Ebony/Touring w/o Navi. The car had 31,500 miles and was bought as a "certified" used Acura with the extended warranty. I paid 32k for it which is a fair price. I've seen similar MDX's for sale for 37k through private sellers, but those don't come with the extended warranty which costs roughly $2,000, plus they aren't "certified". I'm not exactly sure if being "certified" means anything, but so far the dealer has replaced a few normal wear and tear items for me under warranty.

Once again, sorry for not getting back to this thread promptly.