"96 or 97+" Question

[4thGenPrelude]

My father and I have been toying with the idea of jointly purchasing an NSX for many years now, and lately it's becoming more apparent that he really wants one, and I can more comfortably afford to put my share in. My question, which I don't doubt has been asked in one form or another, is whether it is worth the wait and search for a 97+ (in our case, it stops at around 2000-2001 based on what we'd like to spend) for the improvements made that MY, namely the bit of extra power and the 6-speed transmission, or is it perhaps not as big of a deal as some might make it out to be, and an older NSX would be just as enjoyable?

If there are owners on this board who have had the privelage to own both (which I'm sure there are), tell me some of your experiences with both the up-to-1996 and from-1997 models, principly I'm interested in opinions on the transmissions (5-speed or 6-speed manual), but I'm not incredibly knowledgeable when it comes to this car, and there may be other small changes made to the car which might make a noticeably greater difference in ownership.

I don't have very much spare time to peruse this site for the possible answer to my question (although you'd think otherwise by the lenth of this post), but feel free to link me to a thread which has covered this question already, to avoid redundancy. Thanks

 

[swbatte]

Having owned a couple of ludes in my time and now a 92 NSX, I thought I'd reply.

I love my 92. It's fantastic. You'd love a 96 no question, although heavier, it did have several upgrades over my 92. Do a FAQ for changes by model year and you'll find them. If you never drive a 97 you'd never miss the differences.

Having said that....if you can wait a bit, and afford a little more, buy a 97. The 3.2 and the 6 speed and larger brakes and revised TCS are worth it. You'll probably only ever own 1 NSX, so get the one you really want.

Then again, if you got a great deal on a 96 grab it.

And the debate continues...

 

[RyRy210]

Most '95+ NSXs would be the NSX-T, so really you are comparing an NA1 NSX-T and an NA2 NSX-T. NA2 NSX-T, hands down. It's not just power and transmission differences, there are alot of upgrades. Plus, we are not just talking about peak horsepower differences here, the entire power curve favors the NA2.

I think there would be more of a debate if you were comparing an NA1 NSX Coupe to an NA2 NSX-T, since some members do prefer the coupe models, unless you are thinking about a Zanardi or one of the rare NA2 NSX coupes out there.

Here are the changes in '97:

Changes for 1997
Three new colors: Kaiser Silver, Monte Carlo Blue, Spa Yellow
Coupes can be special ordered with either a black top or a body color top; -Ts still have body colored roofs
New wheel color on all wheels: Blades Silver (a bright machined/brushed looking finish)
Larger front and rear brake rotor diameters and rotor thickness. The bracket and the rotors are the major change
Front caliper pistons went from 40mm and 34mm to 40mm and 36mm.
Larger engine displacement (bore increased from 90mm to 93mm) from 3.0L to 3.2L on manual transmission cars. Model number for new engine is C32B.
Horse power increase from 270 hp to 290 hp and torque increase from 210 lbs-ft to 224 lbs-ft (manual tranny)
Different exhaust manifolds, now stainless steel and free breathing
Different cylinder linings, fiber reinforced (FRM)
Larger intake valves
Different head gaskets
Larger connecting rod bearings
Numerous emission control system changes
Six speed manual transmission - 6th gear is engaged by a solenoid. The gearshift activates a switch to change gears.
Double synchros on 3rd through 6th gears
Lockout of reverse gear above 12mph
Dual-disc clutch changed to a single disc clutch
Dual mass flywheel
Larger diameter spare tire to clear new brakes
Stronger, thinner aluminum body panels
Heat absorbing glass instead of bronze glass
Immobilizer anti-theft system with coded key using an electronic transponder. No more all-metal keys.
Ignition switch light went away to make room for the immobilizer antenna.
Improved NVH (Noise Vibration and Harshness)
The final gear ratio does not change, so 6th gear in the 1997 NSX results in 6.9% higher vehicle speed than 5th gear in the 1996 model.
New aluminum alloy in selected body areas to reduce weight and increase rigidity
Larger spare tire size (from 15 in to 16 in diameter)
Refined electronic power steering control
Revised shape of the front spoiler
Refined ABS braking system
Improved Traction Control System (TCS) with new control logic

 

[NetViper]

96 vs 97, easy.... 97. Drive both and you will see.

Now, for heavy mods, most prefer the 3.0 to start with.

 

[sahtt]

If you just want a fun to drive NSX, go for the 96-. You'll have an easier time finding one you like with the right color and it won't be nearly as stressful financially; now or taking into account depreciation.

However, if you and your father are focused more on the power delivery than say, looks and handling, the gearing improvements and transmission upgrade [the engine upgrades, IMO, aren't nearly as important as it 'seems'] make it a worthwhile investment. Although the car may depreciate faster if it is a 2000 or 2001, it is unavoidable that a 97+ car will be more valuable as a collector/to future owners as price becomes less of a factor.

Remember that a 91/92 don't have power steering and come in coupe form, which can be great news or not so great news depending on what you are looking for.

 

[4thGenPrelude]

thanks for the reponses. There's a lot of good information in the replies, and probably plenty more to be found after a few minutes of looking. I will check out the FAQ too.

I wouldn't mind non-power steering, but I think my father is beyond that stage hehe. As far as mods go, I don't think I'd consider many, if any, and while I'm sure plenty of NSX owners have said this at one time or another, just owning an NSX would be enough of a thrill What I appreciate perhaps the most about the NSX (other than it's dashing good looks) is it's versatility, which brings me to a follow-up question. While I'll be sure not to focus solely on the drivetrain differences between the NA1 and NA2, -- and again, people who've owned both are probably going to find this easist to answer -- I am curious about the ease of use at lower (city) speeds, and how different the two generations are. As someone mentioned -- and I didn't think much about it at first -- the whole power band benefitted from the increased displacement, so is the NA2 a more competent car at slower speeds, or is that simply a given? That question isn't terribly important, rather one I simply wanted to see what kind of answers it would produce. I've had 2 opportunities to drive an NSX, both were '94's, and it was quite a long time ago, so I really don't remember much ... other than being thoroughly thrilled with the experience :smile:

Thanks folks, I hope one day I can log on here and post pictures of our new purchase like I see so many others have done in the past.

 

[Shumdit]

I have owned 1 NA1 and 2 NA2's and I can honestly say they are both great. That said, do not drive a NA1 and NA2 back to back if you do not think you can afford the NA2. It's like driving a 348 and then a 360.

 

[NSX7]

I currently own a 91 - had it for 3 years now - I asked the same question here on prime two months ago as I wanted to switch to a 97+ - almost everone advised me to go with the 97+ - I wanted to feel more torque so most people said that the 97+ pulls a lot harder than a 91

Last month, I had an opportunity to drive a 2001 NSX-T - 6spd - drove it for about 20 min - very hard to come by here (or even test drive) - with all honesty, I could not see a big difference in both cars whatsoever - mainly to justify $20,000+ extra in price - the 01 had more throttle response but torque wise, I could not (feel) any difference - I also did not care at all about the 6spd vs my 5spd - I know the 97+ has more upgrades such as bigger brakes, etc... but I really did not need bigger brakes, better TCS, power steering, etc... on my 91 - but again everyone is different - when I get some cash, I will need to do headers and exhaust because that's what the 91 really needs - you really really need to drive both before you make a decision simply because everyone is different

 

[nsxtasy]

I think the more important question is whether you prefer a fixed-roof coupe or the NSX-T with its removable roof panel. Almost all the '95-01, and all the '02-05, will be the NSX-T, and all the '91-94 will be the NSX Coupe. You'll pay significantly less for a '91-94 than a '95+.

 

[Dtrigg]

I have owned 1 NA1 and 2 NA2's and I can honestly say they are both great. That said, do not drive a NA1 and NA2 back to back if you do not think you can afford the NA2. It's like driving a 348 and then a 360.

I've owned both as well. The man speaks volumes.

 

[Shumdit]

I currently own a 91 - had it for 3 years now - I asked the same question here on prime two months ago as I wanted to switch to a 97+ - almost everone advised me to go with the 97+ - I wanted to feel more torque so most people said that the 97+ pulls a lot harder than a 91

Last month, I had an opportunity to drive a 2001 NSX-T - 6spd - drove it for about 20 min - very hard to come by here (or even test drive) - with all honesty, I could not see a big difference in both cars whatsoever - mainly to justify $20,000+ extra in price - the 01 had more throttle response but torque wise, I could not (feel) any difference - I also did not care at all about the 6spd vs my 5spd - I know the 97+ has more upgrades such as bigger brakes, etc... but I really did not need bigger brakes, better TCS, power steering, etc... on my 91 - but again everyone is different - when I get some cash, I will need to do headers and exhaust because that's what the 91 really needs - you really really need to drive both before you make a decision simply because everyone is different

I would say you are either very imperceptive, or more likely, something was wrong with the NA2. Either that or your NA1 is exceptionally strong. I can tell you the difference with my eyes closed (but I may hit a tree and total it if I do that:biggrin: )

 

[RyRy210]

I currently own a 91 - had it for 3 years now - I asked the same question here on prime two months ago as I wanted to switch to a 97+ - almost everone advised me to go with the 97+ - I wanted to feel more torque so most people said that the 97+ pulls a lot harder than a 91

Last month, I had an opportunity to drive a 2001 NSX-T - 6spd - drove it for about 20 min - very hard to come by here (or even test drive) - with all honesty, I could not see a big difference in both cars whatsoever - mainly to justify $20,000+ extra in price - the 01 had more throttle response but torque wise, I could not (feel) any difference - I also did not care at all about the 6spd vs my 5spd - I know the 97+ has more upgrades such as bigger brakes, etc... but I really did not need bigger brakes, better TCS, power steering, etc... on my 91 - but again everyone is different - when I get some cash, I will need to do headers and exhaust because that's what the 91 really needs - you really really need to drive both before you make a decision simply because everyone is different

Don't lose sight that the initial question is a '96 vs '97, so the price difference wouldn't be as great as your '91 vs '01 example. Plus your '91 is a coupe, and I would think the '01 was most likely an NSX-T, so your car would have somewhat of a weight advantage.

 

[sahtt]

People may be confusing power with how the gearing manipulates it. Pre 97 cars dyno very similar #'s to 97+'s. The engines produce very similar torque numbers. Any significant differences can be alleviated by upgrading the restictrive NA1 header. I've seen some stock NA1's out produce stock NA2's on the same dyno, both cars healthy. Usually there is at least 5whp difference, which is still very small.

If you are just cruising along or going WOT only in higher gears on the freeway, the cars are going to feel very similar. Once you get on it in the lower gears, the superior NA2 gearing is very apparent, as is the 6spd transmission coupled with that [rearend gearing and individual 1-6 gear ratios].

I always have a motorcycle and usually at least another car that is convt. or has a large sunroof, so having the coupe NSX felt more natural to me anyways.

 

[nsxtasy]

People may be confusing power with how the gearing manipulates it. Pre 97 cars dyno very similar #'s to 97+'s. The engines produce very similar torque numbers.

That depends on how you define "similar". The difference is what it is; I consider it significant.

Once you get on it in the lower gears, the superior NA2 gearing is very apparent, as is the 6spd transmission coupled with that [rearend gearing and individual 1-6 gear ratios].

You make it sound like the rear-end gearing (also known as the ring and pinion gear, and the final drive gear) is different between the two transmissions. They are both the same (4.062 ratio).

As for how much of the improved acceleration is due to the transmission, and how much is due to the engine, it's about 80 percent engine, and 20 percent transmission, according to Bob Butler's calculations. (0-60 and 1/4 mile times are each about 0.5 second faster, with 0.4 coming from the engine and 0.1 from the transmission.)

 

[MJK]

If you both can jointly budget up to an '00/'01, then why not buy a pair of well maintained, higher milage early coupes so you can both enjoy your own?
Just a thought...

 

[NSX7]

I would say you are either very imperceptive, or more likely, something was wrong with the NA2. Either that or your NA1 is exceptionally strong. I can tell you the difference with my eyes closed (but I may hit a tree and total it if I do that:biggrin: )

There was nothing wrong with NA2 I drove - it only had 14000 miles - note what I said "feel the torque" - In my E46 M3, I can really feel the torque than my 91 NSX or the NA2 - but between the 01 and the 91 NSX, they were almost very similar - other than the faster throttle response, I could not find a big difference - I believe the T-top does not help the newer NSX either as it is heavier

On another note, a friend just bought the F430 and someone else that went for a ride with him was describing that car to me as incredible, you actually get sucked in the seat in every gear in that car - can't wait to go for a ride

 

[Shumdit]

I think feeling the torque in an NSX is a little of a oxymoron. The NSX is not a big block V8, and torque is not it's strong point. That said, I can certainley tell the difference between my old NA1 and both of the NA2's I have owned. I think the majority of people who have driven both and posted about it on prime agree. The NA1 coupe is a more pure driving experience to be certain though with the lack of P/S and weight advantage, as well as the rigidity, although I can not tell a difference in rigidity between a T with the roof on, and a coupe. Roof off I can tell, although I am not usually driving agressively on the street which is when I would have the roof off.

 

[nsxtasy]

I think feeling the torque in an NSX is a little of a oxymoron. The NSX is not a big block V8, and torque is not it's strong point.

That's true. However, what the NSX lacks in torque, is offset to a large extent by gearing, and the fact that VTEC allows the torque to be maintained up to very high RPM, meaning that the car can be in a lower gear where most other cars will need to upshift and lose acceleration due to gearing. This fact is true of the NA1 as well as NA2 engine.

You can read more about how gearing can make up for lack of torque (and how it's reflected in the horsepower numbers, rather than the torque numbers) in this article.

 

[Shumdit]

That's true. However, what the NSX lacks in torque, is offset to a large extent by gearing, and the fact that VTEC allows the torque to be maintained up to very high RPM, meaning that the car can be in a lower gear where most other cars will need to upshift and lose acceleration due to gearing. This fact is true of the NA1 as well as NA2 engine.

You can read more about how gearing can make up for lack of torque (and how it's reflected in the horsepower numbers, rather than the torque numbers) in this article.

I am certainly not complaining about the power curve, just pointing out the perception that NSX7 had might not be one that is realistic if torque is what he was judging the feel by. I have never driven a NSX with short gears or a higher (numerically) rear end ratio to compare the a gearing change alone would make it feel. Heck I have a brand new Autorotor CTSC still in the boxes waiting to be installed, so I have no idea what it's like to drive mine with that either!