6-spd Clutch Question

[Paul]

I drive a 91 NSX and decided that I wanted to purchase a 6-spd instead of modifying the current 5-spd in the car. On ebay, I found a new 6-spd transmission that came with a new OEM clutch (that fits the 6-spd). I plan to add FI to the car b/f this clutch needs to be replaced. The car is a weekend driver so I only put about 5K miles a year on this car. At this point I am not really interested in tracking the car but it is not out of the question. If I ever decide to track the car it would only be once or twice a year.

The plan all along was to sell the OEM clutch that came with the transmission and purchase a CT Power Grip II clutch. Well, yesterday I stopped by the local Acura dealer and to my surprise there was a yellow 97 that had the transmission removed. I asked the technician what he was doing and he explained that the hydraulic clutch line had burst? He then told me that the cause of the problem was the CT Power Grip clutch in the car. I watched him remove the clutch and it was a CTPG. I know this same technician outside of work and about a year ago we were talking and I asked his opinion about the CT. He told me that he had installed a CT clutch in a yellow 97 and that the owner hated it. He also said that the clutch was bullet proof but that it required too much pedal effort and advised me to stay away from it. Well that was a year ago and here I am now thinking about purchasing one. The yellow car that I saw in the shop yesterday is the same car that he installed the CT clutch in. I looked at the clutch when he removed it and it still looks good. He said that there is definitely still life left in it but that the owner hates it so much that they are going back to a stock clutch. He also noted the mileage when the clutch was installed and two years later the owner has only logged 9K miles on the car. He said that is b/c the owner does not like to drive the car with the current CT clutch.

My question is how much pedal effort does the CT Power Grip require? Is there anyone out there that has a CTPG clutch? I would love for someone that has had one or has one to let me know pros and cons about this clutch. I called CT and asked them what the difference was b/t the CTPG I and GTPG II. They told me the only difference was in the friction plate and that the pedal effort would be the same with both the CT I and II. So after seeing the yellow car with a broken hydraulic clutch line and hearing more than one person tell me that the pedal effort required will drive me nuts, I am beginning to think that I should just use the OEM clutch.

I would also like to hear from any owners that have aftermarket clutches installed that would also fit the 6-spd. I am not locked into CT; I just don't think there is a lot out there for the 6-spd. I am not looking to spend more than $2K for the clutch.

One more thing, the OEM clutch that fits the 6-spd clutch is heavy, very heavy. Is there anyone here that has installed an aftermarket clutch and noticed a difference in performance? It is my understanding that most aftermarket clutches out there are about 20 lbs lighter than the OEM 6-spd clutch (and 10 lbs lighter than the OEM 5-spd clutch). I wander if 10 lbs really makes a difference, but 20 lbs sounds like a lot of rotating mass.

Sorry this post is so long, I just need some help deciding what to do with the clutch. I can sell the OEM clutch while it is still new and put that money towards an aftermarket clutch or just install this one since I already have it. I am not installing the 6-spd at the dealer and I purchased the parts off of ebay so warranty is not a big concern (since I don't have one).

Thanks in advance, Paul

 

[matteni]

I have driven both and did notice the heavier clutch feel - but it was not THAT much more and surely within the levels of other OEM applications (older Porsche clutch feel comes to mind).

It is just that everything in an Honda - from the switches and buttons - to the clutch is so effortless it does seem a little out of place. That said for many people the +'s outweigh the -'s. The car I drove had the super and mod. 5 speed so I don't believe the stock clutch would have held up long under these conditions. It also IMO engaged much lower and much more quickly then OEM.

Again not bad - especially if this is not a daily driver used in heavy traffic.

Good luck and hopefully someone near you will read this and offer you a ride so you can determine for yourself what is "too much"

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Nick M

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

I recommend the Comptech Powergrip 1 for these types of applications. The Comptech clutches are also much lighter than the factory (and the twin disc as well).

We offer these at a discount, feel free to e-mail.

Cheers,
-- Chris

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Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520

 

[Zishan]

Is the Comptech PG II clutch universal? I thought I read somewhere that a 91 - 96 Comptech clutch will work on 97+ will longer throw out bearing/or something like that?

 

[nsxtasy]

Hi Paul,

The aftermarket clutch I drove (which I THINK was a Comptech but I'm not positive) had a very stiff pedal requiring a lot of effort, and a very short "sweet spot" so that it was basically "on/off" only. I didn't much like it. But others might; best bet is to try someone else's. I don't know what kind Andy V has on his supercharged car but he's in town and maybe you can try his.

You're in a good position, I think. It sounds like the six-speed you bought has a functional stock clutch, and it also sounds like (I'm sure you thought of this already) you can buy the used Comptech clutch from the dealer's customer with the '97 for a song, since he's getting rid of it. So you have two different choices, and you can put one in, and have the other one ready to try if you don't like it.

 

[stevefromatl]

I just had the Comptech Powergrip 2 clutch installed in my '94 about a month ago. I guess it depends on the person's opinion whether one thinks it is too heavy to push or not. I personally love it and don't think it's that heavy, but I don't drive my car everyday. If you have ever driven a late 80's/early 90's mustang, it is the same as far as how heavy it is. I definitely wouldn't get it if you are planning on driving in traffic a lot.

 

[hdsr5]

Hi. I have 1991 Acura NSX and I had a brand new 2001 6-Spd trans installed a few months ago, along with a new Comptech Stage II clutch. I had a 5-Spd trans with a Comptech Stage I clutch. I do NOT recommend the Stage I clutch, because when i removed the 5-Spd clutch and was going to put in the 6-Spd, we noticed that the springs in the clutch disc were loose, yet I only put on a few thousand miles on the clutch. The pressure plate still looked new, but the disc needed to be replaced. Then I called Comptech and they were reluctant to just sell a disc, I had to return the whole clutch assembly to be rebuilt. SO, I would just buy the Stage II disc. I feel it is more bulletproof than the stage I mainly because of the disc, but the clutch effort is only slightly harder. Barely. Don't waste your money or time with the Stage I. Just get the stage II. Take it from someone who has spent alot of $$$$ going through the process of ending with the Stage II in the end anyway. And it leaves you open to getting NOS, or a Supercharger, which the Stage II is made to handle too! Shawn

 

[hdsr5]

Whoops. My last post is a LITTLE dyslexic. Anyway, just sell your OEM clutch and buy the Comptech Stage II clutch. Don't even waste your time & money on a Stage I clutch. The Stage I disc is too frail in my opinion. Shawn

 

[Wadasan]

Originally posted by hdsr5:
Hi. I have 1991 Acura NSX and I had a brand new 2001 6-Spd trans installed a few months ago, along with a new Comptech Stage II clutch. I had a 5-Spd trans with a Comptech Stage I clutch. I do NOT recommend the Stage I clutch, because when i removed the 5-Spd clutch and was going to put in the 6-Spd, we noticed that the springs in the clutch disc were loose, yet I only put on a few thousand miles on the clutch. The pressure plate still looked new, but the disc needed to be replaced. Then I called Comptech and they were reluctant to just sell a disc, I had to return the whole clutch assembly to be rebuilt. SO, I would just buy the Stage II disc. I feel it is more bulletproof than the stage I mainly because of the disc, but the clutch effort is only slightly harder. Barely. Don't waste your money or time with the Stage I. Just get the stage II. Take it from someone who has spent alot of $$$$ going through the process of ending with the Stage II in the end anyway. And it leaves you open to getting NOS, or a Supercharger, which the Stage II is made to handle too! Shawn

I've got the same set-up on my 92. The clutch is very stiff, but feels tight.

 

[Paul]

Thanks for the input. A lot of you mentioned that the pedal effort was not *that* bad if the car was not driven daily. My car is not a daily driver so I am not really worried too much about the additional pedal effort. I worry more about performance.

The 5-spd stock clutch is about 10 lbs heaver than the CT clutch and the 6-spd stock clutch is about 20 lbs heaver than the CT clutch. Are there any owners out there that have had the 6-spd stock clutch and then switched to an aftermarket clutch that was about 20 lbs lighter? If so, could you tell a difference in performance? Does the engine rev quicker once the clutch has been released and you lay on the gas? Basically if there is a noticeable performance increase using an aftermarket clutch it would help justify spending the extra money. If the performance increase is only minor then I may want to stick with the stock clutch since the car only has a few bolt on mods.

So again, are there any owners out there that have had the 6-spd stock clutch and then switched to an aftemarket clutch that was about 20 lbs lighter?

Lud what clutch are you using? I saw your CTSCed car at NSXPO in Dallas. Your not using a stock clutch are you?

Thanks again for your help, Paul

P.S. Ken last time I talked to Andy he was using a stock twin disk clutch with the 5-spd?

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited 30 January 2003).]

 

[sjs]

I currently have one car with a 5-spd and OEM clutch and another car with the 6-spd and the CTPGII. The pedal effort on the CT clutch is much greater than the OEM twin disc, but if driven frequently you won’t even notice it after a short while. (Unless someone else drives your car.

) But I can see where someone who drives the car just occasionally and the rest of the time drives something with a softer clutch might not like it. Even then I’m surprised that pedal effort if the main complaint. Much more difficult to master for most people is the on/off switch nature as described above. When you let it out the grip is almost immediate so you need to be much better at taking off from a stop, and it is even very abrupt during upshifts. As with the pedal effort you should be able to adjust to it, but I suspect people who are already hard on clutches because they don’t know proper engagement technique will tend to be even harder on the CT or equivalent.

As for my recommendation, I like the CT but I’d say use the new EOM unit if you have any doubts about the CT. If you are good with clutches and don’t do a lot of drag racing then it will have plenty of grip and life even if you add a super charger. (My OEM dual disk is over 85k miles, nearly thirty of with turbos.) There should be someone in your area that can give you a test drive, but if you happen to be in St. Louis you can try mine.

BTW, I thought the stock single disc setup uses a “dual mass” flywheel which effectively reduces MOI. Does anyone have details on that?

 

[Lud]

Paul - I have a Comptech PGII clutch. I like it. Of the clutches I have driven in an NSX it is my favorite, but I have not had an opportunity to drive several of the newer aftermarket units yet (ACT, Exedy, Tilton, etc.)

Different clutches feel different. It does require a bit more pedal effort than stock (I do not know the exact numbers) but it has never bothered me at all. I would probably not want to use it to commute an hour each way in heavy traffic on a daily basis, but I don't have to so it's not an issue.

However as you and others have noted, some people do not like it (or many other aftermarket clutches) at all. There are many variables besides pedal effort too. As sjs mentioned, the engagement feels different on different clutches. I personally think the OEM clutch (esp. the 5-speed) feels a bit vague for a sports car and much prefer the more decisive engagement of the CT clutch. But as sjs noted, someone who feathers the clutch is going to have a harder time driving a car with crisper clutch engagement.

My best advice on aftermarket clutches is simply to try before you buy if at all possible.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 31 January 2003).]

 

[NoClgDeg]

I just installed a 1997 Clutch and I love it. Nice Honda smooth engagement with no chatter...so far.

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91 Red/Ivory #2061