3.2 swap in a '91
- Thread starter cibcib
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I know it has been done at least once.
Doug H / www.pulpracing.com fame did this several years ago. I would check with him on the specifics.
Doug H / www.pulpracing.com fame did this several years ago. I would check with him on the specifics.
Yes, it can be done. If you reuse your intake manifold, injectors, and wire harness, it will be plug-and-play.
-- Chris
-- Chris
Chris@SoS said:
... and ignition coils.
Doesn't the C30A intake manifold flow better than the C32A manifold anyways??
Do you need the 6 speed to or will the 5 bolt up ok? (i'd go for the 6 anyhow...more performance).
Do you need the 6 speed to or will the 5 bolt up ok? (i'd go for the 6 anyhow...more performance).
Of course the new intake manifold is better but you may have trouble to convert a '91 non TBW to a TBW (throttle by wire).
As for the tranny: depends on the clutch - AFAIK it's not easy to fit the older 2 disc clutch to the 6 speed tranny (although I guess the older clutch works better than the single disc version - less slip).
As for the tranny: depends on the clutch - AFAIK it's not easy to fit the older 2 disc clutch to the 6 speed tranny (although I guess the older clutch works better than the single disc version - less slip).
You'll also find that many (if not most) of the used engines are sold as a complete drivetrain, with the transmission included. So you may as well put in the six-speed with it.NSX-Racer said:
NSX-Racer said:
Not sure your comment about the manifolds is accurate. Not sure it's wrong, just don't know. True it was intended to support more power and therefore more CFM, but that's still no guarantee that it is "better". I have heard before that it does not flow as well, but I don’t recall any solid evidence of that either.
I would disagree with the comment that "the older clutch works better than the single disc version - less slip". I prefer the original twin disk for the same reason they designed it that way, which is relatively low MOI. But they changed to a single largely because too many people had trouble making smooth starts, which prompted them to slip the clutch more, which wears out the clutch. But the problem with a smooth launch on those clutches is not how much the clutch slips or grabs. The same low MOI that is good for performance makes a smooth launch more difficult because you don't have as much stored energy available to get you started. And of course that's why the later single disk is a "dual mass" design in an attempt to achieve the best compromise for a street car.
sjs: For the manifold you see the info in the NSX FAQ here
For the clutch: I will say nothing against this wonderful Dual Mass Flywheel (it's produced by a company that has its main siege about 5 miles away from me).
I have to correct me in one statement: It is possible to put a single disc clutch from - let's say - a '98 model like the one I have into a '91 car - it only doesn't work the other way round. I just would not suggest to do so. Maybe it depends on the driving style but I like the behaviour of the old clutch as you described it better. When german car mag "sport auto" tested a new 3.2 l NSX late 1997 they had to stop acceleration measure procedures because of the slipping and smoking clutch. The german mags didn't have that problem back in the early 90s with the 3.0 l model.
I smoked 2 stock clutches - one after about 20.000 miles, the other with race track use lasted less than 10.000. The enormous traction of this car with race slicks seems to be just too much for the stock single disc clutch. Most members of our club drive 3.0 l models and have nearly no problems with their clutches (also with race slicks on tracks).
So there are two explanations: I didn't drive as smooth as the others (which may be true) and the old two disc clutch withstands better heavy accelerations (which is just my conclusion). For serious track use I would suggest a racing clutch anyhow - I have a custom made sinter metal clutch from Sachs Racing Germany with 6 times the pressure of the stock clutch and without any damping springs. Nothing for a daily driver of course.
For the clutch: I will say nothing against this wonderful Dual Mass Flywheel (it's produced by a company that has its main siege about 5 miles away from me).
I have to correct me in one statement: It is possible to put a single disc clutch from - let's say - a '98 model like the one I have into a '91 car - it only doesn't work the other way round. I just would not suggest to do so. Maybe it depends on the driving style but I like the behaviour of the old clutch as you described it better. When german car mag "sport auto" tested a new 3.2 l NSX late 1997 they had to stop acceleration measure procedures because of the slipping and smoking clutch. The german mags didn't have that problem back in the early 90s with the 3.0 l model.
I smoked 2 stock clutches - one after about 20.000 miles, the other with race track use lasted less than 10.000. The enormous traction of this car with race slicks seems to be just too much for the stock single disc clutch. Most members of our club drive 3.0 l models and have nearly no problems with their clutches (also with race slicks on tracks).
So there are two explanations: I didn't drive as smooth as the others (which may be true) and the old two disc clutch withstands better heavy accelerations (which is just my conclusion). For serious track use I would suggest a racing clutch anyhow - I have a custom made sinter metal clutch from Sachs Racing Germany with 6 times the pressure of the stock clutch and without any damping springs. Nothing for a daily driver of course.
I suspect both are true.NSX-Racer said:
There are huge differences in the amount of wear that a driver puts on the clutch. One way of determining these is by opening up the transmission. (It's an expensive operation, so you do it only when you need to, not just to check this.) Our local dealer which specializes in servicing NSXs that are used on the track recently opened up the clutches that were being used by three different instructors in track events - mine, plus two Zanardis. They found that the clutch surfaces on the two Zanardis were both heavily scorched, indicating slipping and abuse. Mine was as smooth and shiny as a baby's bottom.
On the previous, stock clutch on my '91, I got 38K miles on it before it failed (one of the springs broke, but they also found that the friction surface was fairly worn anyway) and that figure included 6,250 actual track miles. I can only conclude that lower mileage is due to driver technique, rather than any other reasons.
anyone has NA2 vs NA1 dyno graph?
i would be very interested to see how NA2 vs NA1 with the same 6 spds tranny?
if i remember correctly, NA2 and NA1 only product around 10-15 rwhp difference, and about the same for torqe. If that is the case, i dont see how can it make such a big difference... maybe it is the 6spds tranny that play the major factor??
any idea?
-jjc.
6spds nsx & supra
i would be very interested to see how NA2 vs NA1 with the same 6 spds tranny?
if i remember correctly, NA2 and NA1 only product around 10-15 rwhp difference, and about the same for torqe. If that is the case, i dont see how can it make such a big difference... maybe it is the 6spds tranny that play the major factor??
any idea?
-jjc.
6spds nsx & supra
NSX-Racer said:
That's all about exhaust, not intake. The late cars do have "semi" headers rather than the short runner cast exhaust manifold of the early cars, but I see no reference to the intake manifold.
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Why are you posting the exact same thing that you posted in this other topic???JJCNSX said:
You only need to post a question in one place. You'll get an answer wherever you post your question (like nsxtasy did in that other topic, where you asked the same question)...
Forums Nazi said:Why are you posting the exact same thing that you posted in this other topic???
You only need to post a question in one place. You'll get an answer wherever you post your question (like nsxtasy did in that other topic, where you asked the same question)...
Yes SIRE!
sjs: Sorry, it seems I misunderstood your topic. If you speak of the air intake it seems to me that there should be no major improvement in newer models.
