2002 Type R Front Chassis Bar Install - Help

[NSX2play]

I recently bought both of the 2002 Type R chassis reinforcement bars.

The bottom bar was a snap to install. Put the car on jackstands, removed the two front suspension bolts in front of the battery tray to which the bar lines up, snake in the bar, reinserted the bolts, tightened to 69 lb-ft as per the manual and I was done.

The front bar is a different story. Do I need to remove the front bumper to install it? It seems that I might have to, so I can remove the radiator shroud. The other alternative seems to be working through the grill which seems a lot more difficult - sort of like dentistry through the nose - though far fewer parts to remove and reinstall!

Any help you could give me is appreciated.

Thanks

Michael Provenzano

 

[maomaonsx]

Yes to both, you need to remove the front bumper and cut the shroud to install that part.

 

[docjohn]

I concure, you need good exposure to do it right.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

The front bumper does not need to be removed.

The "top" bar is a breeze to install, and can be done best from under the car up a lift.

To install the "front" bar, the basic steps are:
1. remove aluminum radiator support brackets, and remove spare tire
2. lift radiator out from bottom stays, and pull backwards. It helps to secure the radiator with something like bungee cords.
3. this will now expose the radiator shroud which can be seen here:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...SX-R_chassis_reinforcement/bars_installed.jpg
4. remove stay brackets, and trim radiator shroud to fit NSX-R L & R bar brackets (see above photo)
5. install brackets, replace stay brackets, and bolt together with supplied bolts
6. replace removed components

A more concise installation guide will be available soon.


best regards,
-- Chris

 

[NSX2play]

Well the second bar - the front one - is finally installed. What a story!

I started off with Plan A, the route suggested by Chris Willson at Science of Speed - removing the radiator retaining brackets, pulling the radiator back and installing it through the gap. While it is possible to do, it seemed like building a ship in a bottle to me and was too easy to bend the radiator fins. In fact, I bent a few and that was too excruciating to bear. So I went to plan B.

Plan B involved removing the lower part of the front bumper and installing from the front and below. When the lower part was almost removed I realized that I would not be able to get it all off without removing the rest of the bumper. So on to Plan C - removing the whole bumper.

Plan C was definitely more work (fortunately I have the shop manual to guide me), but it made the installation of the bar a snap. Of course, even that had a few hiccups!

First there was the extra metal plates welded onto each of the tow hook flanges onto which the bar is mounted (so the flange was two pieces of metal of equal thickness welded together). The extra plates made the distance between the mounting points too small for the bar. So that necessitated getting a 5" grinder to cut part of the second plate off of the flange. No big deal, but I did not have one. Fortunately, my brother-in-law (he with all the tools known to man) did. He was able to cut and grind off the extra plates (only a part of them needed to be removed) in minutes.

Second the slotted hole for one of the bolts was just a little too short. So that required pulling out the Dremel tool to lengthen the bolt. Easy.

Then I was able to bolt things back together. That is where my 15 year old helped by holding and guiding one end of the bumper into place while I did the other. But before everything could be tightened down, there was a partially stripped mounting nut which was attached to the body and onto which the fender was bolted to be fixed. Before the nut was fully stripped (trying to avoid my usual brute force and ignorance mechanical method) I had to run out and buy a 6 mm tap - which involved going to three stores only to find out that the pitch of the thread of the tap which the first store tried to sell me really was the correct one (and the same as the ones at stores 2 and 3)!

Because of family functions, other engagements and my general laziness the whole operation was spread out over two weekends, but it finally went back together. It was hugely satisfying to get it all done and having everything fit. I did not even have any bits left over!

 

[Kinan]

How does it drive???

 

[NSX2play]

I cannot really say, for two reasons.

Firstly, my car is a '91 so the chassis is pretty stiff to begin with, so there might not be the same degree of change that one would see with a T type.

Secondly, I have not driven enough since the install to notice a difference. While I did get some track time with them - the day after I completed the install I went to my local track - I unfortunately managed to mow the lawn in my second session (and push down a low tire wall and chain link fence to do it). Ouch! I drive in the advanced group (after this maybe I should downgrade myself) and was pushing pretty hard when I experienced the dreaded snap oversteer at the limit. This time I could not catch it. Now my car is going into the shop at the end of the month for a new fender and paint. When I get it back and put a few more (better controlled) miles on it, I will post my impressions.

 

[Kinan]

Sorry to hear of your mishap. Hope it comes back in good shape!
I installed it on my '92 and noticed a real difference in corners just street diriving and was wondering if anyone noticed it as well.
Haven't been to the track yet.

 

[Nimbus]

Anyone just install the bottom bar only? Feel a difference?

 

[2slow2speed]

Anyone just install the bottom bar only? Feel a difference?

I finally had the bottom bar installed on my 97-T (Thanks DanO for your suggestions for moving the sway front sway bar mounting point further back), it makes a pretty big difference in regards to how the car feels, the steering is a bit heavier but more precise.

The ride of the car is a bit harsher because the steering wheel provides more input in regards to the irregularities on the road but that's ok with me.

I'll be heading to the track tomorrow, so I will let you know how much of a difference it makes at the track.

Ken

 

[Kinan]

I noticed a difference when I installed only the lower bar.
I agree it felt heavier but more precise.
It was a nice change though.
I thought the difference from the front bar would be slight but was way more than I expected.
It made the car ride even harsher but really improved understeer performance.
I could actually break the rear tires loose turning street corners.
Very glad I installed it but sometimes annoyed at the harshness.

 

[matteni]

I did the bottom bar and agree with the statements above. More precise turn in and much less understeer. I did my first "non rain induced" spin at Gateway international when I couldn't catch the rear too.

Install hint - you only have to jack up one side of the car - remove 2 bolts - fish it in - and your done! Not bad for $50 and OEM quality to boot.

Thanks Chris / SoS!

 

[Kinan]

One thing I forgot about the front strut bar..its holes are drilled/spaced for installation without the tow hook.
The tow hook bracket shares the same hole space that the front bar strut installs on.
If you decide to leave the tow hook in, be prepared to elongate the mounting holes in the front strut bar to accomodate this thickness change.
A pretty easy procedure.
Also, I found it very easy to use a dremel and a drywall cutting bit to open the plastic that covers the mounting holes for this.
Lots safer than a carton knife especially if you need help when you count to ten like I do..

 

[Hrant]

It would be interesting to hear posts from those who went with stiffer aftermarket sway bars first, and then installed the lower bar and what difference they noticed.

By simply going to the stiffest position on the front Comptech sway bars (from the middle hole to the outermost hole), I already noticed and commented the heaviness in the steering, as if losing part of the power steering, and having the car track more in a straight line, almost willing to kick the steering back to the center position whenever you are turning at normal driving speed, like it has a slight spring load in it ..... all this with just one hole! But then, the sway bars at the middle holes (neutral) gave the same sensation when I first installed them compared to the oem on a 98-T.

So if one did the front bar with oem sway bars, presumably they would get the same sensation, and perhaps more? But doing both sway bar and front bar, now that would be an interesting comaprison to a benchmark .......

 

[Kinan]

Oh, I've got the Dali street bar. It has no adjustment holes.
I really like this setup now. Very responsive but still haven't tracked it yet.

 

[matteni]

I too have the Dali Street/Track bars and had them first for 4+ years. Definately a "winning" combination IMO.

 

[DanO]

Went to the track Monday with both bars installed, couldn’t really tell much of a specific difference, and I have a lot of miles at this track with my NSX. But, I was running the best lap times I’ve ever run and the car felt great! I installed the front bar by removing the radiator brackets and using an air ratchet to remove the mounting bolts.

DanO

 

[Kinan]

Dano,
I saw your installation pictures from MJ and read your writeup. Very helpful. Nice dog.
I didn't have an air ratchet but found that if approaced through the grill with a socket wrench there is just barely enough room to engage one tooth of the ratchet. Slow but workable.
To get at the 2 bolts for the AC silver tank thingy, I used some vice grips attached to the end of a open end wrench and approached it from the top.

I can't wait to get it on the track!

 

[2slow2speed]

It would be interesting to hear posts from those who went with stiffer aftermarket sway bars first, and then installed the lower bar and what difference they noticed.

.......

Hrant,

I have been running my NSX with the Dali Street/Track bars set to the stiffest setting up front, once I installed the bottom bar, it made another incremental difference in regards to the steering.

I'll see how the car feels at Thill tomorrow, it will be my first time running it Clockwise (8th time total) so it might not be an apples to apples comparison, but I will post some feedback.

Ken

 

[Hrant]

Hrant,

I have been running my NSX with the Dali Street/Track bars set to the stiffest setting up front, once I installed the bottom bar, it made another incremental difference in regards to the steering.

...... Great! Does the steering feel heavier, wnating to say centered or is it just me or are we all describing the same phenomenum just in different terms .....


I'll see how the car feels at Thill tomorrow, it will be my first time running it Clockwise (8th time total) so it might not be an apples to apples comparison, but I will post some feedback.

Ken

Ken, you will love it clockwise, and once you run it that way, you will always want to do it again perhaps because of its novelty but it is more challenging ..... just make sure you brake hard and in a straight before the crest going to 9 - this is a charcter builder LOL! ....... eight is deceptively fast and you may run out of real estate trackout if you are taking it without tapping brakes (the NSX can carry a lot of speed coming down from 9), assume whatever you do on 5 it will not work unless you do a mental picture of where to turn and trust your calibration ...... so take it easy over there we have had a few spins and some went into the dirt, the problem is the car behind you ........ and for 3, you have good grip if you hug the inside going in and you will love it but the track out will be challenging as you may run out of room with four wheel drift ........... we had one boy racer who spun there, and he had KUHMOs too ........

Have fun and do report back.

 

[DPG]

As of right now I have the Tein RA's and the Dali track sway bars,
yes the big ones, and I love the feel. I Have ordered the NSX-R bars and am waiting for them to come in. Hopefully this will be the ultimate setup besides getting the pillow ball mounts from Tein for the front upper struts.

 

[2slow2speed]

Bottom bar and the track..

Ken, you will love it clockwise, and once you run it that way, you will always want to do it again perhaps because of its novelty but it is more challenging .

Hrant,

The NSX definetely felt better with the bottom bar installed, the suspension felt a lot tighter and it seemed that both wheels tracked a lot better.

Now I'm considering getting some front non-compliance clamps as well as the non compliance toe links for the back of the car. That should make the car better through the transitions.

Thill was a real blast going counterclockwise, learned the line riding with Andrie for some orientation laps, he actually drove his NSX .

You were right, going uphill towards 9 was a very interesting experience, tried several approaches like heel and toe downshifs to 3rd before reaching the top of the hill, downshifting while on top of 9, etc, etc.

The amount of speed through 8 and 7 was quite high, never had the nerve to really go flat out through either one of the turns though. (I go flat out on the dog leg and tap on the brakes on 8 on the other way around

Tried several different approaches between 6 and 5 and it was fun, almost ran out of space once after cresting on 5 too... Going clockwise is definetely a lot more challenging and fun. I hope to be able to run that with the bypass someday .

 

[Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach]

Yeah I have a 97 T also, with both bars installed and factory sways. It makes the steering heavier & more solid feeling, kind of like a new Benz but still an amazing sportscar if that makes any sense?