2002 Sales Numbers to Date

Number9

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Today's SJ Mercury News had a review of the NSX (and some other sports cars) and while the review contained no new insights, it did state that "Acura dealers sold 14 NSX models in May and 103, so far this year."

So it looks like the reskin didn't help the sales very much. In contrast, I recall that the introduction of the T caused a bit of a sales pop...
 
I honestly think the lack of interest comes from leaving the powerplant alone.

The styling is fresh, and attractive, though I am still not crazy about the lights.

This year alone, porsche bumped their power in the 911 to 315, the z06 got another 20 HP to 405, and they leave the NSX alone?? -- I personally don't understand that.

Maybe they should offer a comptech SC as an option on the car from the factory and reduce it to a 5K upgrade. I bet that would boost some sales!
 
How much horsepower can you have and still get into heaven?
Don't you guys think the NSX is fast enough as it is? It's very difficult to use the existing power if you don't track the car. What's the hang up with having to have more horsepower than a porsche, etc..........??
 
How much horsepower can you have and still get into heaven?
Don't you guys think the NSX is fast enough as it is? It's very difficult to use the existing power if you don't track the car. What's the hang up with having to have more horsepower than a porsche, etc..........??

DITTO! Well said. My NSX is just right. There isn't a Porsche or Z06 that passes me that I want.


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Originally posted by NSX-00054:
How much horsepower can you have and still get into heaven?
Don't you guys think the NSX is fast enough as it is? It's very difficult to use the existing power if you don't track the car. What's the hang up with having to have more horsepower than a porsche, etc..........??

I guess you are right from a rational point of view, however, how many people buy flashy sports cars because it is rational?

I think a large percentage of people buy cars like this for bragging rights. "My car is faster than your car!" etc. You know the type I am talking about.

Giving the NSX more power can only help the image of the car IMO. Even if it is only a bump to 310 or so.

The next gen car should be pushing a lot more power. I can understand not spending more money on R&D with current engine with a new model coming out, but adding a factory option for a comptech SC doesnt cost them a dime.

Just my 02. I could be wrong
smile.gif
 
Originally posted by NSX-00054:
How much horsepower can you have and still get into heaven?

Basically, I'd like the NSX to be faster than every car cheaper than it. I don't mind someone spending $300,000 and getting a faster car; it's the folk who spend $40,000 who kinda bug me...

But yeah, it's nice and fast as is.

-Bob
 
I think the NSX doesn't need to boost the power output. So what if the Z06 is a second faster to 60. It takes 405hp 5.7L V8 just to do it.

A Ferrari Testarossa has a Flat-12 with a decent hp output that does 0-60 roughly 5 seconds. I would rather have that than a Z06, 911 or M3 which have faster acceleration times.

I just hope the next NSX has a different name. That way the current model remains unique from years from now.


[This message has been edited by wctsao (edited 14 June 2002).]
 
Actually, here are the CORRECT NSX sales figures:

Through May 31st, 2001: 82 Sold
Through May 31st, 2002: 103 Sold

Bottom line: 2002 Sales Up 25.6% versus last year.

The reskin, which to me is absolutely hideous, probably has less of an effect on sales than the large media coverage given to the 02 car via some positive magazine reviews and television shows over the past six months.

It does look however that Honda will achieve its goal of selling 200 NSXs this year in US (they only sold 182 NSXs total for year 2001).
 
Some people forget where the NSX is from. It's from Japan, and with the 280hp limit in place, the NSX has actually already reached its limit in its domestic market. I think this is why Honda decided to focus more on aerodynamics and other non-power related aspects of the car. Not many people remember this fact when they bash the NSX.
 
Originally posted by RyRy210:
Some people forget where the NSX is from. It's from Japan, and with the 280hp limit in place, the NSX has actually already reached its limit in its domestic market. I think this is why Honda decided to focus more on aerodynamics and other non-power related aspects of the car. Not many people remember this fact when they bash the NSX.

It is my understanding that 280ps is the maximum they are leagally allowed to advertise. However, many cars exceed that level. ie.. supra.
 
Originally posted by NSX-00054:
How much horsepower can you have and still get into heaven?

You may be in "horsepower heaven" now, but you wont stay there long. Repeated exposure will desensitize you and you will soon require more power and speed to get the same buzz.

Don't you guys think the NSX is fast enough as it is?

LOL. Only if you live perpetually in 1991 or drive like a granny.

Being fast is a relative measure. Among sports cars the NSX was fast in 1991, but the competition has caught up and is about average now. All the other makers have offered continual upgrades while honda has sat on its ass. In a few short years, the NSX will be slow.




[This message has been edited by JoeSchmoe (edited 14 June 2002).]
 
I think the Acura NSX buyer is a very informed buyer. For that reason, it makes very little "rational" sence to spend $90K on a car that has the same powerplant as a 1997 car. Is it fast as is? of course, but I think few people are willing to pay a premium over a nice used 1997-2001 to get the same performance. I think the sales show just that.

If I had the 90K to spend on the 2002 NSX I can get a low milage 1997 for 50,000+ spend another 15-20K on Go fast and reliable Comptech parts, and still have over 25,000 dollars left in the bank.

I would agree that even a few 10-20+ HP would have increased the perceived value. I know that lots of Porsche and Ferrari drivers have to hurry and UPGRADE to the next new model year becuase they dont want to be upstaged by the more "powerful" model that out powers it by 5 hp!
 
I agree with the statement that the next gen should NOT be called the NSX.

Concerning the advertising of anything over 280ps... it is not a legal issue... it was a "gentlemen's agreement" between the Japanese auto makers. I think that agreement is fading.
 
Originally posted by NetViper:
It is my understanding that 280ps is the maximum they are leagally allowed to advertise. However, many cars exceed that level. ie.. supra.

Actually, when I went to Japan I saw dyno charts of Skylines and Supras and the wheel hp they made seem to agree with the 280hp restriction. (It also seems that the best motoring video with the 911 TT kinda supports that claim). Also, in the US, the 3000GT and the Supra are all 320hp. From what I understand, the difference from the JDM ones and the US ones are just the amount of factory boost. The 3000GT, for example, has anywhere between 9psi - 12psi of boost depending on model year and market. The NSX is not like a Supra or 3000GT, u can't turn up or turn down boost for more hp. I would say the 280hp restriction for Turbocharged cars is not that big of a restriction. For the NSX, however, it is a huge restriction.
 
Hi, Even though I had only had my 91 nsx 43,000 mile car for two days, I still think it is very fast and alot more fun to drive. I went through a tough time finding a car that was right for me. The mustang cobra I
had was 320 horsepower and pretty fast, but no way did it handle and have the quality
and craftmanship of an NSX. Same for the corvette, Yeah there fast but get junky
pretty quick. I'll choose the NSX over any corvette, mustang or viper ect.... Dan
 
Originally posted by POWERED by HONDA:
...Concerning the advertising of anything over 280ps... it is not a legal issue... it was a "gentlemen's agreement" between the Japanese auto makers...

Does anybody know why this agreement was made? Seems kind of silly, but that may be my Americanism showing - I know the Japanese corporate culture is different. I just don't understand it. To me it's like saying "Let's have a competition. I won't try too hard if you won't, and that way nobody can get hurt". What gives?
confused.gif


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'91 Black/Black
 
Originally posted by RyRy210:
Also, in the US, the 3000GT and the Supra are all 320hp.

"Were", not "are"; both are gone from the U.S. market. And both were slower than the NSX, stock vs stock - mostly due to their excessive weight (3800 pounds for the Mitsu, 3500 for the Supra).
 
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
"Were", not "are"; both are gone from the U.S. market. And both were slower than the NSX, stock vs stock - mostly due to their excessive weight (3800 pounds for the Mitsu, 3500 for the Supra).

They "were" and still "are" 320hp cars. I've owned both at one point before the NSX. Last year for the 3000GT was '99 and the Supra was in '98. I don't think hp decreases with age? does it? If that is true then I guess they indeed "were" 320hp.
 
Heh. I guess Ken's NSX "had" 270hp.
smile.gif


Seriously, though. Don't forget that in 1997, the NSX's claimed HP got bumped by 20, and the torque bumped by 10ft-lbs. However, looking at performance (I'm sure Ken can quote specific magazine test numbers if I'm too far off here), they cut something like a half second off both the 0-60 and the quarter mile. That's nothing to sneeze at. And with the aerodynamic improvements of the new model, and the bigger wheels/tires, and suspension tweaks, they've decreased lap times as well. Sure they're not bumping every year, but it's not like they haven't done anything at all in 11 years. And I don't think it's good to bump it every year like they've been doing with the Z06. If I bought a Z06, and then the next year they released the same car but with +20hp, I'd be pretty miffed. I rather like knowing that my money's gonna be well-spent for at least a few years if I'm gonna buy something.

But anyway, regarding the question of how much horsepower is enough. If there was a switch on my dash labelled "270hp <--> 400hp", I think we all can probably guess which position it would stay in. I think Mark Basch designed a switch like that. I just have to save up the money to buy it and install it.
smile.gif


-Mike
 
Originally posted by grippgoat:
Seriously, though. Don't forget that in 1997, the NSX's claimed HP got bumped by 20, and the torque bumped by 10ft-lbs. However, looking at performance..... Sure they're not bumping every year, but it's not like they haven't done anything at all in 11 years.


Unfortunately, thats the ONLY bump you see in 11 years and thats pretty rediculous when compared to some of Honda's other models.

In these same 11 years, the integra/rsx line has seen 3 major body revisions and perhaps 5 engine variations. If I recall correctly, this also resulted in a series HP gains (integra 139/170/195 and rsx 160/200).

At the same time, the CL has seen at least 2 bumps from 145 to 225 to 260. Thats a 115HP gain over those 11 years!

Dont forget the Accord... it had a series of engine upgrades as well:
1990 - 130HP
1991 - 140HP
1994 - 145HP
1995 - 170HP (accord gets a V6!)
1998 - 200HP (carried to current models)
Thats a 70HP gain since 1990.

I dont even remember what the civic went through, but it too had quite a few. I think it has gone between 115HP to 160HP in the US and even 197HP for JDM type-r.


So how can you be satisfied with only 1 bump of 20HP when thats a mere fraction of what Honda has given to its other cars?
 
How do you improve on something like the NSX? I can see how Honda would want to make improvements to other models. But in the NSX's case, Honda felt that they got it right the first time IMHO. The idea of a CTSC as a factory option is pretty enticing, though.

Hell, I'm glad they didn't do much to change the NSX in it's 11 year history. For one thing, I like the fact that there aren't a million different versions of the same car. With a car as rare as the NSX is, that's important especially for finding parts in the future for the car when it goes out of production. Since I'm probably less than a week away from being a used NSX owner, I'm definitely concerned about this side of ownership and upkeep.

For me, it's also nice to be able to go out and buy a used '91 for $30k and have it look esentially like a nearly-new 2001.

Chuck
 
Originally posted by JoeSchmoe:
In these same 11 years, the integra/rsx line has seen 3 major body revisions and perhaps 5 engine variations. If I recall correctly, this also resulted in a series HP gains (integra 139/170/195 and rsx 160/200).

No, the Integra/RSX line had generations released in 1994 and 2002. That's only two major body revisions, not three. So when you say "this also resulted in a series HP gains (integra 139/170/195 and rsx 160/200)", that represents only ONE hp "gain", when the 2001 Integra line was replaced by the RSX line.

Note that during that same time period, the NSX had significant revisions in 1997 (cosmetic and performance) and 2002 (cosmetic only).

Also, the fact that a model has several variations available at the same time does not represent incremental changes over time, but rather, a need for separate versions. For example, in 1999, the NSX was available in three versions - the 252-hp 3.0-liter version, the standard 290-hp 3.2-liter version, and the Zanardi 290-hp 3.2-liter lightweight version. That year, the Integra was only available (in the States) with the 140 hp engine or the 170 hp engine.

Similarly, most of the different versions mentioned above for the CL and the Accord are simply different versions available at the same time, not performance enhancements over the years.[/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by JoeSchmoe:
So how can you be satisfied with only 1 bump of 20HP when thats a mere fraction of what Honda has given to its other cars?

Because the premise to your question - that Honda improves most of its models every year or two - is simply not true. Honda changes its other models every 4-5 years, and sales of those models range from roughly 20,000 cars per year (Integra) to 400,000 cars per year (Accord). When sales of a model are in the hundreds rather than tens of thousands, it's simply unrealistic to expect changes to be as frequent as for the bread-and-butter models.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 15 June 2002).]
 
Originally posted by Viper Driver:
How do you improve on something like the NSX? I can see how Honda would want to make improvements to other models. But in the NSX's case, Honda felt that they got it right the first time IMHO. The idea of a CTSC as a factory option is pretty enticing, though.

Think of it this way. Imagine yourself joining a company in 1991 and getting paid the same wage for 6 years until 1997 when you get a 7% pay raise. Then imagine working another 5 years for your 1997 wage. Unless you were a slacker, dont you think you deserve a RAISE? Besides if you were middle class in 1991, youre dipping below the poverty line now in 2002.

In addition, I recall a poll taken here on nsxprime 2 years ago (http://www.nsxprime.com/previous_polls.htm) where users were asked what they wanted most and 786 people responded as follows:
more power - 56.6%
better brakes - 16%
new styling - 11.1%
no major changes - 9.1%
less weight - 6.9%

From the poll results AND your CTSC comment, I think it is pretty clear how Honda can improve the NSX. Yet they didnt do their homework because in 2002 we are presented with new plastic bits, bubble eye headlights, and lime green paint.

p2-brd.jpg

lime.jpg



Honda may feel they got it right the first time, but that was long ago. What was right back then isnt right anymore.


For me, it's also nice to be able to go out and buy a used '91 for $30k and have it look esentially like a nearly-new 2001.

I think thats a big part of the problem. Not only will your 91 look like a 2001... it will perform almost like a 2001 too. As ERicincal brought up earlier in this thread -- the average buyer is well informed and will realize the 2002 model is essentially the same as the 1997 model. So reskinning the car for 2002 does absolutely nothing for new sales because it doesnt distinguish itself. I dont think it takes a genius to figure out that if you give the customer what they want, they will buy it. I seriously think Honda would have drawn more new customers by giving it another 20HP than with the cheesy headlights and bodywork.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic but in other circles, if its old and highly sought after... its called an antique.
 
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