widest wheel & tire's for 98 NSX tracking

druby · 8 April 2007

What is the widest tires size for a 98 NSX to be used for the track. I just spent two days at the track and I have wheel and tire envy as there was a carrera and a viper there with really wide tires and man they had monster grip compared with my stock wheel with DOT slicks on them.

This is one moidification I can definitely do right away.

Ponyboy · 8 April 2007

I use 17x8.5 front and 18x10.5 Volk TE37s. Some of the turbo cars and/or widebodies may be using something wider.

You can check my gallery for fitment pics.

WingZ · 8 April 2007

Ponyboy said:
I use 17x8.5 front and 18x10.5 Volk TE37s. Some of the turbo cars and/or widebodies may be using something wider.

You can check my gallery for fitment pics.

Hey Pony

I couldn't find any pics that show your fitment ,but it was cool to see that Jenson Buttons drives a LBBP NSX:biggrin:

What size tires do you run? I want to buy some 18x8.5's for the front of my car ,but don't want to rub.

CarCrazed4Life · 8 April 2007

If you have your suspension tuning all figured out, then I can tell you what I've found. Bob mentions he has 215/35/18 front, and 315/25/19 rears.

I've done 235/30/18 front and 315/25/19 rear. All on OEM body. And with the liners. At the end of the day, Meat is great, but balance and suspension tuning has got me further then the tire size I have on my car...

Ponyboy · 8 April 2007

WingZ said:
Hey Pony, I couldn't find any pics that show your fitment ,but it was cool to see that Jenson Buttons drives a LBBP NSX:biggrin:

I'm not sure if that's his or if Honda gave him a yellow one. It's rumored he does own one of the NSX-R GTs though...I'll let you know when I go to visit him again.

Here's a sideglance pic:

There are others in the gallery as well. Once I get my car back, I'll take some specific pics of the setup for everyone's general reference.

WingZ said:
What size tires do you run? I want to buy some 18x8.5's for the front of my car ,but don't want to rub.

I run 235/40-17 and 285/30-18. However, I'd like to run a 295 in back if I can get an adequate diameter. With the 235 up front, I rubbed on full lock. I also use a 7.5mm spacer up front and a 5mm spacer in back.

Handling balance is great...though judging by my track tires wear pattern, I could use more neg camber up front.

WingZ · 8 April 2007

Wow the rubbing doesn't affect you on the track? I can't believe the S2000 can take a wider wheel than the NSX

A 225/35 is only a 1/2 inch wider than than the 215 but is there no way to get around that rubbing wise as a 215 won't fit a 8.5"?

stuntman · 8 April 2007

WingZ said:
Wow the rubbing doesn't affect you on the track? I can't believe the S2000 can take a wider wheel than the NSX

I wouldn't imagine he is at full lock while on the track

Ponyboy said:
I run 235/40-17 and 285/30-18. However, I'd like to run a 295 in back if I can get an adequate diameter. With the 235 up front, I rubbed on full lock. I also use a 7.5mm spacer up front and a 5mm spacer in back.

What is the offset of your wheels f&r ? What suspension are you running, and do you have any clearance issues with the fender and or inner fender lining?

Ponyboy · 10 April 2007

You're right - I've never been at full lock at the track. To answer your question, front has an offset of +40 and rear +45.

Suspension and full spec sheet of the car is HERE.

stuntman · 10 April 2007

Ponyboy said:
You're right - I've never been at full lock at the track. To answer your question, front has an offset of +40 and rear +45.

Suspension and full spec sheet of the car is HERE.

Nice car ponyboy.

So if you are using 7.5mm spacer up front and a 5mm spacer in back from the +40 front and +45 rear offset then that means that your wheels + spacers =

+32.5 front and + 40 rear ?

BATMANs · 10 April 2007

aren't spacers a bad idea if the wheels are not resting on the hub?

All that load on just the wheel bolts sounds like a recipe for a parts car.....

CarCrazed4Life · 10 April 2007

BATMANs said:
aren't spacers a bad idea if the wheels are not resting on the hub?

All that load on just the wheel bolts sounds like a recipe for a parts car.....

Hubcentric Spacers do not have that affect, and most spacers under 10mm also do not have that affect as the hub usually protrudes more then 10mm anyways so it still has material to rest on. You want to be careful for spacers larger then 10mm that are not hubcentric. And many cheap hubcentric spacers claim to be hubcentric, but truly aren't. Trust me I found this out about a specific set of spacers I bought on ebay that are toyota/lexus specified and our lexus wheels have play on the spacers.

Ponyboy · 10 April 2007

stuntman said:
Nice car ponyboy.

Thanks - appreciate it.

stuntman said:
So if you are using 7.5mm spacer up front and a 5mm spacer in back from the +40 front and +45 rear offset then that means that your wheels + spacers = +32.5 front and + 40 rear ?

Mmm, not sure. The wheel's offset doesn't change per se but the spacers do bring them out to clear the brake caliper (front). Which would add to the positive offset (if I'm reading you correctly) so +47.5 front and +50 rear.

I hope that helps?:wink:

stuntman · 10 April 2007

Ponyboy said:
Mmm, not sure. The wheel's offset doesn't change per se but the spacers do bring them out to clear the brake caliper (front).

I know the wheel offset dosnt change, but the total offset of wheel + spacers will make the total wheel offset (from the hub) different.

Ponyboy said:
Which would add to the positive offset (if I'm reading you correctly) so +47.5 front and +45 rear.

I hope that helps?:wink:

Didn't you say that you are using a 5mm rear spacer?

I'm pretty sure adding wheel spacers would lower the offset number, because it is offsetting from the wheel centerline. Adding a wheel spacer should make the contact point of the hub closer to the centerline of the wheel. or. If you add enough spacers, then you will have a positive offset (usually positive offsets -on the other side of the wheel centerline) usually have big dished lips).

So if you do have a 5mm rear spacer I believe you would be at:

+32.5 front and + 40 rear ?
__________________

Ponyboy · 10 April 2007

stuntman said:
Didn't you say that you are using a 5mm rear spacer?

Sorry! I corrected in my previous post. :frown:

stuntman said:
I'm pretty sure adding wheel spacers would lower the offset number, because it is offsetting from the wheel centerline. Adding a wheel spacer should make the contact point of the hub closer to the centerline of the wheel. or. If you add enough spacers, then you will have a positive offset (usually positive offsets -on the other side of the wheel centerline) usually have big dished lips).

As far I understand it and I'm by no means an expert, adding a spacer brings the wheel out more - effectively adding positive offset to wheel (in relation to the car's wheel well. Moving the hub base out from the wheel centerline would be adding offset.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/utcustom.asp

Maybe the above^ can help.

stuntman · 10 April 2007

Ponyboy said:
Sorry! I corrected in my previous post. :frown:

As far I understand it and I'm by no means an expert, adding a spacer brings the wheel out more - effectively adding positive offset to wheel (in relation to the car's wheel well. Moving the hub base out from the wheel centerline would be adding offset.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/utcustom.asp

Maybe the above^ can help.

My post was wrong, let me fix it:

I'm pretty sure adding wheel spacers would lower the offset number (towards a negative offset). Adding a wheel spacer should make the contact point of the hub closer to the centerline of the wheel. or. If you add enough spacers, then you will have a negative offset which means the contact point of the wheel and hub is on the other side of the wheel centerline and are characterized by big dished lips.

Adding wheel spacers to any wheel will add a negative offset to any wheel because it pushes the entire wheel outward (away from the brake caliper and car). If you look at the wheel cutaway picture of a positive offset (ex. +40) and add wheel spacers, the point where the wheel spacers contact the hub will be closer to the wheel centerline (which is moving in a negative direction).

I still believe you are running:

+32.5 front and + 40 rear ?

***I guess you can look at it in two ways:

1-Wheel spacers push the entire wheel/offset (ex. +40) further away from the car so the physical contact point of the wheel is moved in a positive direction

2-Wheel spacers add more width to the wheel contact point (ex if you weld a wheel spacer to the wheel then your total wheel offset (wheel+spacer) will be lower, moving in a negative direction (+40 and a +5mm spacer = a net +35).

I'm not sure what is the correct way of looking at it, but I believe the second is how. Can anyone clairify?

https://www.rsracing.com/tech-wheel.html

Ponyboy · 10 April 2007

stuntman said:
Adding a wheel spacer should make the contact point of the hub closer to the centerline of the wheel.

That would work if you had negative offset to begin with, the centerline of the wheel was static, and a spacer was used.

stuntman said:
If you add enough spacers, then you will have a negative offset which means the contact point of the wheel and hub is on the other side of the wheel centerline and are characterized by big dished lips.

More negative offset would move the hub bore inward towards the suspension (centerline of wheel being static). Positive offset would move the hub bore outward towards the fender edge. If your offset were 0mm and adding a 1mm spacer your offset would now be 1mm, positive.

I wish all discussions were this civil!

stuntman · 11 April 2007

Ponyboy said:
That would work if you had negative offset to begin with, the centerline of the wheel was static, and a spacer was used.

More negative offset would move the hub bore inward towards the suspension (centerline of wheel being static). Positive offset would move the hub bore outward towards the fender edge.

Are you sure? I believe(could be wrong) that more negative offset would move the hub bore (point of contact where wheel meets hub) away from the suspension and away from the wheel centerline (towards the face of teh wheel that you see). Which means positive offset would move the hub point of contact with the wheel toward the suspension.

So Negative offset means the point of contact of the hub and wheel is toward the face of the wheel leaving a huge void where the wheel centerline is. Positive offset means that the point of contact of the hub and wheel is towards the inside of the wheel - so the majority of the width of the wheel/tire contact patch is sticking out -away from the car and resulting in a large dished lip, or a lot of room for brake caliper.

Ponyboy said:
If your offset were 0mm and adding a 1mm spacer your offset would now be 1mm, positive.

THIS WILL ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS/CONFLICTS.

So, with a 0mm offset wheel, what will adding 1mm spacer do?

1mm positive or
1mm negative ?

-I believe it's positive because the point where the wheel (and now wheel spacer) contacts the cars hub is on the positive side of the wheel centerline (point of contact is closer to the car/suspension which means that the wheel width/contact patch is now sticking further away from the center of the car.

If this is true, than your +40mm offset with a 7.5mm wheel spacer would net your wheel+spacer a +32.5mm offset since the wheel is sticking out of your car more than before. Right? (or am i hugely mistaken?)

Ponyboy said:
I wish all discussions were this civil!

?

CarCrazed4Life · 11 April 2007

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101

Assume we are talking about Positive Offset, only because you will not see negative offset except in few instances.

Lets assume offset is 50mm. As shown in the picture, that offset is basically the distance from the center to the hub.

Now remember, the wheel mounts at the hub... So a lower offset (numerically)
pushes the wheel's hub towards the center, and pushing the wheel further out towards the fender/street side. A higher offset (numerically) will push the wheel closer to the strut/inside.

So adding a spacer is pushing the wheel out. So numerically speaking a 50mm offset on a wheel combined with a 10mm spacer is equivalent to the same size wheel with an offset of 40mm.

Hope that helps clear up the issue.

Ponyboy · 11 April 2007

stuntman said:
Are you sure? I believe(could be wrong) that more negative offset would move the hub bore (point of contact where wheel meets hub) away from the suspension and away from the wheel centerline (towards the face of teh wheel that you see). Which means positive offset would move the hub point of contact with the wheel toward the suspension.

I think you have it turned around. The center line of the wheel is divided into two equal parts. The half closest to the suspension is negative and the half closest to the fender is positive.

stuntman said:
Positive offset means that the point of contact of the hub and wheel is towards the inside of the wheel...

That's actually negative offset.

stuntman said:
?

Though definitely the minority, not all discussions here are cordial and civil. Some people can be totally irrational and unreasonable. I was commending you on being a good person to have a discussion with. :thumbs up:

stuntman · 11 April 2007

CarCrazed4Life said:
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101

Assume we are talking about Positive Offset, only because you will not see negative offset except in few instances.

Lets assume offset is 50mm. As shown in the picture, that offset is basically the distance from the center to the hub.

Now remember, the wheel mounts at the hub... So a lower offset (numerically)
pushes the wheel's hub towards the center, and pushing the wheel further out towards the fender/street side. A higher offset (numerically) will push the wheel closer to the strut/inside.

So adding a spacer is pushing the wheel out. So numerically speaking a 50mm offset on a wheel combined with a 10mm spacer is equivalent to the same size wheel with an offset of 40mm.

Hope that helps clear up the issue.

THANK YOU!!!! -that's exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for explaining it clearer than me. (my brain works weird). -Hey, atleast it works :biggrin:

Ponyboy said:
I think you have it turned around. The center line of the wheel is divided into two equal parts. The half closest to the suspension is negative and the half closest to the fender is positive.

I think I had it right, I just wasn't explaining it well, when I said inside of the wheel, I meant the inside of the wheel spokes -moving the hub toward the spokes (from the inside)). -my brain works weird. So yea, if you looked at it like the diagram above, you are moving the hub toward the outside of teh wheel (away from the car) - again, i had goofy logic. Your statement is true and I agree with it.

Ponyboy said:
That's actually negative offset.

It was positive from my explaination. But again, goofy logic and lack of clarity. Moving the hub point of contact toward the inside of the spokes (outside of the wheel) is in the positive direction. -I think that's a little better, but not as good as CarCrazed4Life's explaination

Ponyboy said:
Though definitely the minority, not all discussions here are cordial and civil. Some people can be totally irrational and unreasonable. I was commending you on being a good person to have a discussion with. :thumbs up:

Yea, I agree. People can be impatient and jerks and in a situation like this, some may be thinking the right concept but cannot explain it well through typing (like me for example!)

Thanks for the compliment. I understood the concept, i'm sorry for my goofy explainations :biggrin:

SO!! You are running a 32.5mm front offset:tongue: (if you agree with CarCrazed -and my goofy logic that tried to say the same thing)

Ponyboy · 11 April 2007

Sorry, I don't agree.:wink: But I'm open to being incorrect.

I look at like this: the spacer fits in b/t the hub and the hub bore of the wheel. The purple line is offset, in the case above it's positive and represented by the horizontal purple line in the illustration above. Should someone add a spacer, it would only increase the distance that purple line represents thereby effectively increasing the relative positive offset.

Adding a spacer pushes the wheel out, yes. And it would be negative if the hub bore didn't move. But it also pushes the hub bore out by the same distance as well, which I think is the priority to the discussion.

stuntman said:
It was positive from my explaination.

Anything that is on the half of the wheel closest to the suspension is considered negative. Every illustration linked or mentioned has that to be the case. So if you're moving the hub bore away from the negative side of the wheel centerline then you're adding offset, positive offset.

Haha...I may very well be the dude with the goofy logic.

Here's the Yokohama image for reference:

CarCrazed4Life · 11 April 2007

Ponyboy said:
Sorry, I don't agree.:wink: But I could very well be incorrect.

I look at like this: the spacer fits in b/t the hub and the hub bore of the wheel which is represented by the horizontal purple line in the representation above.

The Horizontal Purple Line only represent the Center Line of the wheel. Remember the Hub of the wheel mounts on the hub of the car. Lets say (make Math easy) your car's rear wheel is 10" wide (19x10.) Then in mm that is 254mm. The center line is 127. The distance from the center line to the hub of the wheel is 50mm (or offset/ET50.) 127+50mm towards the backside of the hub or towards the strut side when mounted equaling 177mm. That means only 77mm of the wheel is past the hub or towards the street/outside.

Now same equation with an offset of 40mm means that 167mm of the wheel is towards the strut side from the hub, and 87mm of the wheel sticks past the hub.

If you add a 10mm spacer to a wheel with an offset of 50mm, it also pushes the wheel out 10mm, making the wheel equvialent to a 40mm offset wheel of the same size.

Thats just done using numbers. The reason the pictures are great for understanding offset, but not comparing it is because the brain sees the center line and thinks it is the refrence point instead of the hub. Techinically if there were three drawings the center line shouldn't be drawn, and the mounting position should be equal to a fixed line which is the hub.

stuntman · 11 April 2007

I think I got it, lets see if I can help you (or vice versa:wink: )

Ponyboy said:
I look at like this: the spacer fits in b/t the hub and the hub bore of the wheel which is represented by the horizontal purple line in the representation above. Should someone add a spacer, it would only increase the distance that purple line represents thereby effectively increasing the relative positive offset.

Okay, on a positive offset wheel (like the one above, lets claim that it's a +40 offset) you add a spacer (which goes between the car's hub and the hub bore of the wheel) -area represented by horiz. purple line w/arrows. -yes?

How does adding a spacer increase the distance of that purple line? Adding a spacer would fill part of the gap between the hub and the wheel centerline:

Note: Wheel spacer represented by purple box
OS1 - Offset 1 = original (+40 offset) of the wheel
OS2 - Offset 2 = smaller offset due to the wheel spacer

So, adding a spacer reduces the number of the offset (from wheel centerline). So the +40 offset (distance from wheel centerline) is now a +10mm offset because 30mm of that original offset is now taken up by the wheel spacer.

Ponyboy said:
Adding a spacer pushes the wheel out, yes. And it would be negative if the hub bore didn't move. But it also pushes the hub bore out by the same distance as well, which I think is the priority to the discussion.

Okay, it pushes the wheel out - yes.
How would it be negative if the hub bore didnt move?
It pushes the hub bore out .... hmm

I think i get ur thinking (hopefully). The hub bore is fixed to the wheel and wheel centerline (you cannot change that). By putting a spacer in, dont think of it as pushing the hub bore out, because it does push the hub bore out, but it also pushes out the wheel centerline by the same amount. So since the hub bore and wheel centerline are fixed together, view it as putting a spacer to fill the gap between the wheel centerline and hub bore. Thus decreasing the number of your offset and widening the track of your car.

Ponyboy said:
Anything that is on the half of the wheel closest to the suspension is considered negative. Every illustration linked or mentioned has that to be the case. So if you're moving the hub bore away from the negative side of the wheel centerline then you're adding offset, positive offset.

View the comment just before this. Yes you push the wheel outward away from the suspension (positive direction), BUT, the wheel centerline is fixed. The wheel width and hub do not move, and do not change, because the wheel is a single forged, cut, cast, whatever single piece (yes their are 2-3-... piece wheels but for the argument it dosnt move).

I believe you are viewing it as wheel spacers push the hub AWAY from the wheel centerline. The wheel hub bore will always be the same distance from the wheel centerline b/c it was made at a certain offset. Wheel spacers change that offset by changing the gap of the wheel bore to the wheel centerline.

Ex. +40mm offset with a 50mm wheel spacer = -10mm offset. --because the spacer is so wide it passes the wheel centerline and the car's hub connects to the spacer and hub bore/wheel on the negative side of the wheel centerline.

Does that help?

Ponyboy · 11 April 2007

CarCrazed4Life said:
The Horizontal Purple Line only represent the Center Line of the wheel. Remember the Hub of the wheel mounts on the hub of the car. Lets say (make Math easy) your car's rear wheel is 10" wide (19x10.) Then in mm that is 254mm. The center line is 127. The distance from the center line to the hub of the wheel is 50mm (or offset/ET50.) 127+50mm towards the backside of the hub or towards the strut side when mounted equaling 177mm. That means only 77mm of the wheel is past the hub or towards the street/outside.

Now same equation with an offset of 40mm means that 167mm of the wheel is towards the strut side from the hub, and 87mm of the wheel sticks past the hub.

If you add a 10mm spacer to a wheel with an offset of 50mm, it also pushes the wheel out 10mm, making the wheel equvialent to a 40mm offset wheel of the same size.

Thats just done using numbers. The reason the pictures are great for understanding offset, but not comparing it is because the brain sees the center line and thinks it is the refrence point instead of the hub. Techinically if there were three drawings the center line shouldn't be drawn, and the mounting position should be equal to a fixed line which is the hub.

Sorry, that didn't help at all. If the concept doesn't explain itself in general, then it's just not going to click for me using obscure numbers.

Ponyboy · 11 April 2007

stuntman said:
IHow does adding a spacer increase the distance of that purple line?

If the wheel centerline were static, and the spacer not considered part of "the wheel," then how can a spacer not increase the distance of that horizontal purple line?

widest wheel & tire's for 98 NSX tracking

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