Minimum amount of lug nut engagement

Last weekend I installed a set of the 15mm Ichiba V1 spacers. I noticed that I had more thread engagement for my lug nuts without the spacers. Prior to the spacers the lugs nuts threaded on about 9 full turns (by hand) with the new set I have 6.5 turns. That roughly works out to about 15.5 mm of thread engagement in the lug nut vs. the 19.5 mm I had without the spacers.

Does anyone know if that is within spec?

I do check my torque often on my car…

From what I learned on this site you will be ok as long as you have more than 5 turns. Let's see what the more experienced owners say.

I have heard some people say you need 6 turns, and others say you need 6.5. This is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that 5 is enough.

Either way, though, since you have 6.5, you ought to be okay.

Lol i think Ken and I keep saying six turns,so it must be true:wink:

I ran my rears at 4.5 turns for couple of years, but to be safe > 6 turns.

It is sort of an empiric rule that you want to have 1 cm of "bite". With the Acura thread at 1.5 mm pitch, it works out to be around 6.5 turns.
Steve

, kind of surprised by the advice given on this thread

When a spacer that is wider than 5mm is used it is highly recommended to use longer studs. In the OP's case his car is SC'ed so if the spacers were installed on the rear axle more of a reason to install the longer studs.

I don't quote Mark at Daliracing frequently but worth reading what he had to say about the 15mm H&R spacer kit that he sells.

http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=884

The seat type of the lug nuts on the wheels also make quite a difference on how the load is distributed, so depending on wether you have a spherical (OEM) vs conical (aftermarket). Also the material of the lug nuts will make a difference as well.

I ran longer studs on my NSX when I added the Stoptech BBK because the hats on the BBK were wider than the comparable area of the stock rotors by a few millimeters.

On my Porsche's I've always used longer wheel bolts whenever I use spacers, Porsche's OEM 5mm kit is sold with longer bolts, most reputable vendors will advice you about the need for longer bolts or studs when using spacers.

BTW: To the OP. Did you install spacers or wheel adapters? ( spacers with built in studs that are attached to the hub with shallow lug nuts) I would expect a 15mm spacer to reduce the engagement of the lug nut by the amount of the width of spacer. So maybe you are using a wheel adapter???

Sounds like you may be misinterpreting the OP's post and the advice given above. Since his thread engagement isn't reduced by the 15 mm thickness of his "spacers", it's obvious that he's referring to wheel adapters (with their own lugs/studs) and not the flat metal plate type of spacers. It's pretty common for people to do this (to say "spacers" when they are actually talking about wheel adapters). And the advice given above, about the need for 6-6.5 full turns is applicable regardless of whether you're using wheel adapters or flat spacers. If you don't have 6-6.5 full turns on your lug nuts, which often happens with those flat metal spacers, you do indeed need to get extended studs, as Mark also implies. But the OP has this many full turns with his wheel adapters, so he doesn't need extended studs.

You can see pictures of the OP's 15 mm wheel adapters on the Ichiba website here (front) and here (rear).

For the original question, I've heard 6 full turns. The biggest issue for me is torquing them down. I find it easier and safer if the wheel/spacer combo is torqued down when there is no load on the wheels (i.e. when the car is lifted off the ground).

nsxtasy said:

It's pretty common for people to do this (to say "spacers" when they are actually talking about wheel adapters). And the advice given above, about the need for 6-6.5 full turns is applicable regardless of whether you're using wheel adapters or flat spacers.

Click to expand...

I think the OP is talking about Wheel Spacers and not wheel adapters.

There are two basic types of wheel spacers.
1) H&R's DRS style which uses a "flat" spacer (some may have lips for the hub) with longer wheel studs


2) H&R's DRM style which bolt to the hub with existing wheel studs. Wheel then is bolted to new DRM wheel studs using included nuts.


For the NSX, the DRS spacers are available in 5mm & 15mm. For the 25mm application they are the DRM style.


For reference, "Wheel Adapters are hubcentric spacers that allow you to change bolt patterns for different wheel fitments."
http://www.trakplus.com/what

nsxtasy said:

Sounds like you may be misinterpreting the OP's post and the advice given above. Since his thread engagement isn't reduced by the 15 mm thickness of his "spacers", it's obvious that he's referring to wheel adapters (with their own lugs/studs) and not the flat metal plate type of spacers. It's pretty common for people to do this (to say "spacers" when they are actually talking about wheel adapters). And the advice given above, about the need for 6-6.5 full turns is applicable regardless of whether you're using wheel adapters or flat spacers. If you don't have 6-6.5 full turns on your lug nuts, which often happens with those flat metal spacers, you do indeed need to get extended studs, as Mark also implies. But the OP has this many full turns with his wheel adapters, so he doesn't need extended studs.

You can see pictures of the OP's 15 mm wheel adapters on the Ichiba website here (front) and here (rear).

Click to expand...

FYI, the links that you provided are for the V2 version (adapters), the OP referred to his spacers as the Ichiba V1 and those are spacers. Ichiba sells the V1 kit with longer studs so if the OP decided to go with the V1 hopefully the longer studs were installed.

BTW: On high HP applications 6 1/2 turns might not be sufficient, it can depend on the tires as well as the type of lug nuts that are being used as well as the intended use of the vehicle.

2slow2speed said:

FYI, the links that you provided are for the V2 version (adapters), the OP referred to his spacers as the Ichiba V1 and those are spacers. Ichiba sells the V1 kit with longer studs so if the OP decided to go with the V1 hopefully the longer studs were installed.

Click to expand...

Ichiba V1 and V2 are both spacers. Wheel adapters are also spacers.

Bolt on spacers, flat spacers, and "wheel adapters" are all subsets/specific types of the larger group which are "spacers".

Note that both H&R and Ichiba themselves call their products "spacers".

Sorry guys I have been tied up and have not been on the forum...

OK to answer some of the questions yes I am running the V1s with the longer studs such as these;
http://www.ichibausa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AC-50615

Wheels are OZ F1 cup wheels
Tires are Conti Extreme DW

Also I have 6.5 turns before I torque... that is running them in by hand before the make contact with the wheel. I can double check once they touch how many additional turns I get out of them with the torque wrench if you guys like. Let me know.

wfo_18 said:

Also I have 6.5 turns before I torque... that is running them in by hand before the make contact with the wheel. I can double check once they touch how many additional turns I get out of them with the torque wrench if you guys like. Let me know.

Click to expand...

Then the answer is, you're fine, no worries!

I've always used the rule of thumb of "length of stud remaining to engage by lug must be equal to or greater than the diameter of the studs"

But there's actually an ISO formula for determining the required length and it includes knowing the tensile strength of the fastener (stud and lug). This means that a stronger fastener (with associated stronger lug) can have an acceptable shorter length.

Was "six turns" derived this way (someone knew the strength of the OEM studs and lugs), or is it simply a rule of thumb like what I've always done?

J

In Switzerland we have strict rules and it's 6.5 turnes for a 12X1.5 nut. Some are even more strict and you have to count the first revolution off because it's only guiding the nut on the stud.