Unofficial Thread for NA Tuned Dyno Charts

scorp965 · 29 June 2007

Vancehu said:
If what you say is correct, it is possible, because Autowave Dyno was done before my Mugen AIS.

HOWEVER, I dont' believe Erick's car can get up to 290~295rwp even with headers, in fact, I encourage Erick to bring a lighter set of tires. If he does it again. I have always believe that even with heavier wheels, upper RPM range is not effect, because once the wheels are in motion into proper RPM range, the final HP rating should not be effected. The lower range however, may be.

It seems the typical level reached by 3.0L cars, with the standard set of bolt on goodies (headers, exhaust, etc.) is around 270rwhp... I think the point Jason was trying to get across was one of gearing, and relative power... 25rwhp, in the grand scheme of things, is trivial, and at least initially one wouldn't expect you to completely destroy an NA1 car, assuming equal drivers.

Did erick dyno with Simo's LE-37's, or his old wheels? The numbers seem to be inline with what they should be, assuming he has the stock headers/plungers.

legendr35 · 29 June 2007

275 rwhp @ autowave

2002 nsx
comptech IHE

nsxsupra · 29 June 2007

Vancehu said:
HOWEVER, I dont' believe Erick's car can get up to 290~295rwp even with headers

Vance,

I meant his corrected#s. I would think he can come near 275rwhp uncorrected. 20rwhp additional hp is not impossible for him. A set of good headers will do a lot to NA + lighter wheels. Either way, the gap will be trimmed in about half. Imagine Fujitsubo headers on his. If they can get 12~15rwhp out of Comptech headers, why not more with better header.

Jame's also dynoed on the same day, same dyno. He is got an NA2, why it only dynoed same as NA1. I am just using this as example. Of course I can come up with many possible reasons for him. Every car is little different, heavier wheel, possible bad exhaust. etc.

Vancehu said:
I encourage Erick to bring a lighter set of tires. If he does it again.

Can't get easier than that. Let him borrow your wheels. I will bet a Korean Dinner that he will dyno at least 5rwhp more with your wheels (harmless bet that we both can benefit regardless of results:biggrin

.

His wheel is not only larger, wider, 2 piece. The tires are huge as well. Assuming your NSX-R wheel are 17lbs each, maybe as light as 15lbs each. It is safe to say that he is rolling with at least 15lbs more per side wheel/tire combo in the rear.

5~10lbs difference probably doesn't do much. 20lb~30lbs+ I will take my dinner.

Vancehu said:
I have always believe that even with heavier wheels, upper RPM range is not effect, because once the wheels are in motion into proper RPM range, the final HP rating should not be effected. The lower range however, may b

Why do you believe so unless it is a Dynapack? You can actually Google before/after dyno results of lighter and heavier wheels. You still need power to turn the wheels regardless of speed and maintain the speed, just that once rolling to a steady speed the effect is significantly reduced. On smaller displacement higher revving motors that unsprung weight has a fairly substantial impact on performance.

The difference is amplified in the slower speed. Some say rotating mass is 6~10 times the static weight, some say it is 2x. I would say depending on speed. My bet with just 5rwhp virtually guarantee me a free dinner. It takes power to turn the rotationing mass regardless of speed, not to mention the overall diameter of his tires could have some effect on dyno.

Spooler · 29 June 2007

nsxsupra said:
Vance,

" I will bet a Korean Dinner " :biggrin:

BD · 29 June 2007

nsxsupra said:
Vance,

I meant his corrected#s. I would think he can come near 275rwhp uncorrected. 20rwhp additional hp is not impossible for him. A set of good headers will do a lot to NA + lighter wheels. Either way, the gap will be trimmed in about half. Imagine Fujitsubo headers on his. If they can get 12~15rwhp out of Comptech headers, why not more with better header.

Jame's also dynoed on the same day, same dyno. He is got an NA2, why it only dynoed same as NA1. I am just using this as example. Of course I can come up with many possible reasons for him. Every car is little different, heavier wheel, possible bad exhaust. etc.

Can't get easier than that. Let him borrow your wheels. I will bet a Korean Dinner that he will dyno at least 5rwhp more with your wheels (harmless bet that we both can benefit regardless of results:biggrin.

His wheel is not only larger, wider, 2 piece. The tires are huge as well. Assuming your NSX-R wheel are 17lbs each, maybe as light as 15lbs each. It is safe to say that he is rolling with at least 15lbs more per side wheel/tire combo in the rear.

5~10lbs difference probably doesn't do much. 20lb~30lbs+ I will take my dinner.

Why do you believe so unless it is a Dynapack? You can actually Google before/after dyno results of lighter and heavier wheels. You still need power to turn the wheels regardless of speed and maintain the speed, just that once rolling to a steady speed the effect is significantly reduced. On smaller displacement higher revving motors that unsprung weight has a fairly substantial impact on performance.

The difference is amplified in the slower speed. Some say rotating mass is 6~10 times the static weight, some say it is 2x. I would say depending on speed. My bet with just 5rwhp virtually guarantee me a free dinner. It takes power to turn the rotationing mass regardless of speed, not to mention the overall diameter of his tires could have some effect on dyno.

Jason, the easiet way to finish this “discussion right now is find a existing Dyno chart of a NA1 from either Dynodynamics or DynoJet - That has similar bolt-on mods, with similar HP out put than what I received. If they exist, I'm sure it will be on Prime. I do recalled some one mention a prime member got 300 plus rwp from a NA1 - after raising the RPM to 9500, but we are not talking about that.

You see, if NA HP is so easy to get, Honda will not have to do the 3.2 upgrade and still received the same result by having a better header and exhaust system. At the end, regardless what people do to their car, I personally believe there will be at least 20-30rwp differences between NA1 and NA2. Of course, you all know my take on later 02plus with more HP than Honda claimed to have.

The DOHC VTEC engines by nature, can achieve 100hp/liter if prep properly. Take S2k as an example, achieved 120hp/liter. Most of us know that by having a after market header and exhaust will not improve the HP rating, those mods are mostly for weight savings. Therefore, if Erick’s NA1 or any NA1 can achieve 290rwp by having bolt-on mods, you are talking about close to 120hp/liter without any major engine prep work. I can’t accept that. I can however, see the car hover around 270rwp with the same bolt-on as I have – that’s about 110hp/liter, which I believe is achievable. In Hyper Rev, guys with fully built NSX with stronger pistons/heads/cams on their NA1, with ITB only achieve around 340HP to the crank, by simple calculation of 10% power lost, the still hover around 290-300rwp. So no, I don’t think Erick’s car is capable of 290rwp with simple mods. Don’t forget, Erick’s car was dyno’d 250 before Brian tune the ECU. The most Brian extracted from that was 5 more HP. Header may get him up to 20 more HP, and lighter wheel may get him few more, but the ending result will be around 270, and that is with tunning.

nsxsupra · 29 June 2007

Vancehu said:
I personally believe there will be at least 20-30rwp differences between NA1 and NA2.

Vance,
I do not doubt that at all. Honda advertised 20hp more. That is actually really not my point at all. I already seen more than enough dyno results to know the difference. I just happen to triggered the discussion and I have to finish it.

You misunderstood me a bit. I typed fast and refused to edit. 290/295rwhp (Approximately 275~278rwhp uncorrected) is just my rough calculation with all the same mods you have at maximum potential. I probably was too generous by 5rwhp, no body is perfect. Taking his baseline (255x1.05 C/F)=267.75rwhp in comparison to your (295x1.05 C/F)=309.75rwhp on the dynojet. I didn't know his 255rwhp was after tuning. Every NSX is different, even on same dyno, similar mods.

Vancehu said:
At the end, regardless what people do to their car, I personally believe there will be at least 20-30rwp differences between NA1 and NA2.

That depends. Not every NA2 is going to be as strong as yours. 15~23rwhp yes. 30rwhp is way pushing it only if you take really high NA2# compare to really low NA1 #.

Besides yours and a few really strong ones. It is very possible for NA1 to come within 15~20rwhp of NA2. In some rare case even match it. Torque will still be lower even if HP# match because of smaller displacement. 15~20rwhp difference is not nearly enough to passing at well or give someone a headstart and make a come back assuming both cars are same weight.

My conclusion is, it is ok. I think it is time for me to learn more about another car or at least dream of another car.

Spooler said:
" I will bet a Korean Dinner " :biggrin:

It was a typo, suppose to be Korean BBQ.:biggrin: This is good because these type of bet are realistic and beneficial.

BD · 29 June 2007

R34 GTR-V in BLUE!!!

HondaArrArrr · 30 June 2007

nsxsupra said:
Time for a bump on a old and dead thread. I did a little research on power gains from various exhausts. Regarding the built quality, I have detailed pics of all exhaust for comparison, fitment wise, every car is different. Some can get lucky with the fitment, someone else might not be so lucky with same exact exhaust.

The margin of error of all 3 cars is within 1%.

Jose's NA2 with Taitec GT Lightweight exhaust no aftermarket headers:

thanks for posting for me Jason. I need to head to AutoWave; this is on a much cooler day, and see if my new headers helped out any.

BTW modifications at the time of this dyno session (2/01/07):
2000 6spd, ~47k miles

Taitec GTLW exhaust
Mobil 1 Racing 0w/30
Uni air filter
new fuel filter
275/40/18 Work S2r's.

enkrypt3d · 30 June 2007

Vancehu said:
Autowave.
August of 06
Approximately 80 degree temp

Red line: Taitec GT-One v.2 Superflow Titanium exhaust and CT Unifilter.
Blue Line: Fujitsubo Header, custom Test Pipes, Taitec GT-One v.2 Superflow Titanium exhaust and CT Unifilter.

Vance, can you repost your dyno? Image isn't showing up.. thx!

edit: Oops sorry I Should have read the whole thread first! nvm! Great numbers man woah... how is that possible with NA? Are those headers really that good?

L8apex32 · 18 September 2007

Two quick points to add to this discussion.

#1 for dynos that do not have do SAE correction, don't use them. They are useless if you are trying to discuss differences between similar cars. Find someone in your area with a "good" dyno that does correct for atmospheric conditions. Also, skip the "estimated crank HP factor". Its just a guess and likely an optomistic number has been entered.

#2 wheel and tire weight will affect a car on the drag strip differently than on the dyno. On the dyno, the drum gives an even resistance to the engine which is trying to accelerate it. Dyno runs are usually done in a single gear. The engine in an NSX puts out relatively equal torque across the RPM range. This means that while on the dyno, the rate of acceleration is relatively constant. Therefore, the weight of wheels/tires will have a constant effect on the measurement throughout the RPM range.

Contrast that to a standing start. In 1st gear, the car accelerates much more quickly than in 2nd or higher gears do to the more advantageous gear ratio. The engine spools up quicker in 1st and that means the acceleration of the wheels is greatest in 1st gear. Therefore, wheel weights will have the most effect in lower gears and less effect in higher gears.

Similarly, on the track, the wind resistance goes up as the vehicle's speed goes up. This further makes acceleration in high gears less than in low gears.

Summary for flat torque curve cars - The effect of wheel and tire weights on power measurement is nearly constant when making single gear pulls on a dyno in a nearly stock NSX. On the street, the effect is greatest in lower gears and trails off to "no effect" at near top speed. When attempting to measure the difference, use low gear ratios for the most effect.

I hope this helps.

Unofficial Thread for NA Tuned Dyno Charts

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