Just removed my splash off my car. My Honda Tech friend suggest leaving it on. The splash guard does direct air to the brake disc. I think honda put it their for a cooling reason. Those that differ please input.
thank you
thank you
Splash Guard Removal?
- Thread starter SexyRed
- Start date
Are you talking about the dust sheilds on the disc brakes? Honda did put them THERE for a reason, to reduce brake dust, but many of us remove them from there and install larger cooling air deflectors (like the ones Dali sells) to increase the amount of air that flows to the rotors. The deflectors the Honda has installed there are puny and ineffective.
I seem to recall that our factory source told us recently that the shields are there to keep small stones and debris away from the calipers. ICBW.
However, I still believe the reason Honda put them there was so that we could cut a hole in them, weld a flange around the hole, and use the flange as a mounting surface for the end of the brake cooling ducts we install.
However, I still believe the reason Honda put them there was so that we could cut a hole in them, weld a flange around the hole, and use the flange as a mounting surface for the end of the brake cooling ducts we install.
I bet your Honda Tech friend has never driven an NSX hard on the track with the splash guards on. Removing them reduces brake temps ~100 degrees at the track—bigger deflector reduces them another 100 degrees (Fahrenheit) At least this is what my testing data shows when doing A/B tests with OEM brakes and RM pads at Gingerman Raceway. There is no need to remove the guards if the car never sees the track or is never driven hard at the track.
DanO
I recall reading a post or from the FAQ that the rotor splash guards keep brake heat away from the lower arm joints thus lowering the risk of a torn joint seal. Someone had constructed a trimmed guard which allows more ventilation but still protects the joint.
Splash guard removal
There are two ways to remove the splash guards. One is to remove the hub completely and remove. The other method, which I used, is to take a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel and cut the thinnest part of the splash guard away (right where the caliper is located). The splash guard will will slide off over the hub.
There are two ways to remove the splash guards. One is to remove the hub completely and remove. The other method, which I used, is to take a Dremel tool with a cutting wheel and cut the thinnest part of the splash guard away (right where the caliper is located). The splash guard will will slide off over the hub.
front shields: http://www.danoland.com/nsxgarage/brakes/splashguards/splashguards.htm
Rear sheilds require either axle removal (a pain) or cutting them off as suggested above.
DanO
Rear sheilds require either axle removal (a pain) or cutting them off as suggested above.
DanO
The splash guards also divert some of the heat of the rotors from reaching the ball joints. Acura of Brookfield has seen several NSXs in which the splash guards have been removed and it destroyed the ball joints. Incidentally, the ball joint comes as an assembly including the knuckle, and they're not cheap.
John Vasos suggests that if you're going to remove the splash guard, you might want to consider cutting most of it away, but leave the part of it that's between the rotor and the ball joint.
John Vasos suggests that if you're going to remove the splash guard, you might want to consider cutting most of it away, but leave the part of it that's between the rotor and the ball joint.
Perhaps one of the considerations on this issue would be to ask for second opinion.
How many NSX mechanics who regularly service tracked NSXs have seen damaged ball joints due to excessive heat. One control measure would be to check the mileage on the car to avoid that being the underlying variable. Another is whether they had any cooling such as the Dali air deflectors or other ducting.
So, how many of those who track therir cars regulary with lower mileage - say below 50K miles, have had the need to replace their ball joints.
Let's get feedback from Comptech, Mark Basch, Don Davis (?), Niello Acura, Hilltop Auto Service, Foreign Affair, Hopkins Acura, CGI ......... any others that I forgot?
How many NSX mechanics who regularly service tracked NSXs have seen damaged ball joints due to excessive heat. One control measure would be to check the mileage on the car to avoid that being the underlying variable. Another is whether they had any cooling such as the Dali air deflectors or other ducting.
So, how many of those who track therir cars regulary with lower mileage - say below 50K miles, have had the need to replace their ball joints.
Let's get feedback from Comptech, Mark Basch, Don Davis (?), Niello Acura, Hilltop Auto Service, Foreign Affair, Hopkins Acura, CGI ......... any others that I forgot?
Why? Because you don't like the first opinion, from the largest and most respected servicer of NSXs in the Midwest, who has more experience on NSXs (and, particularly, tracked NSXs) than at least half of the others you list? I don't recall you clamoring for a second opinion when someone with a similar level of expertise, such as Mark Basch or Bruce Pettitt (of Niello), makes a statement about the NSX based on their experience. Why are you second-guessing John Vasos's professional opinion?Hrant said:
We already know that at least one leading servicer has...Hrant said:
I personally think second opinions are good in ANY circumstance. Especially since Acura of Brookfield I'm sure hasn't done any controlled tests and or experiments on the issue at hand. They have only commented on their own assumptions based on what they have seen. Plus, let's face it, it doesn't matter how many NSXs they service (I don't know the number) it still has to be a small amount because the car is not common. So out of that already small number how many have had ball joint failures? Out of those how many do they remember had the heat shields taken off? Come on, how can they really know. I bet if you asked them how many they wouldn't even be able to give you an exact number. Because of that alone, I think a second opinion would be warranted. I just know if I were contemplating taking the time to take everything apart to take off the shields I would want all the advice and suggestions I could get. I do the same when trying to work through server and network connectivity issues.
Now, if the remark was based on another totally separate gripe, well then I guess anything I said won't help
Now, if the remark was based on another totally separate gripe, well then I guess anything I said won't help
My motto is "better safe than sorry". I elongated the existing holes on the shield but left the shield alone. The attached picture compares the normal to the Type-R dust shield...notice the holes.
I was moderately heavy on the brakes at the track this past weekend and I didn't have any problem so I'll leave it this way for now.
I was moderately heavy on the brakes at the track this past weekend and I didn't have any problem so I'll leave it this way for now.
Based on the picture comparisons, it seems to me the ball joint heat was not an issue with the Type-R design since the center of the shield - where one would expect to deflect the most heat from the rotors is where they actually increased the opening to ventilate the rotors. I can only surmise that this additional design for the Type-R was done to cool the rotors.
So if one cuts the outer circle of the shield as one option noted, would you still have any "functional" shield left?
The 97+ models already have the other two large openings.
Frankly, the shield appears to be more to protect debris than to perhaps protect heat from the ball joints. In fact, when I changed the rotors on our minivan, I was surprised to note that it did not have shields. I asked the shop to show me the manual to make sure, and sure enough it did not have! I guess cooling the brakes may have been more important.
Curious, did they change the shield design on the rears as well?
Finally, having more data points also helps one understand why this is happening to some cars and perhaps not others.
So if one cuts the outer circle of the shield as one option noted, would you still have any "functional" shield left?
The 97+ models already have the other two large openings.
Frankly, the shield appears to be more to protect debris than to perhaps protect heat from the ball joints. In fact, when I changed the rotors on our minivan, I was surprised to note that it did not have shields. I asked the shop to show me the manual to make sure, and sure enough it did not have! I guess cooling the brakes may have been more important.
Curious, did they change the shield design on the rears as well?
Finally, having more data points also helps one understand why this is happening to some cars and perhaps not others.
If this were true, then you would never get any reliable information about problems with the NSX from ANYONE who is servicing them. But that's not the case.jadkar said:
The simple fact is that there are places that specialize in servicing the NSX, and they see a lot of them. Sure, there are ~300 Acura dealers, and most of them only see an NSX once in a while. But the very few places that specialize in servicing the NSX - dealers like Brookfield (WI), Davis (PA), and Niello (CA) as well as independents like Basch (AZ) - are the ones who see a LOT of NSXs (with one or more usually being serviced at any given time) and notice the problems that they see frequently. When they see a problem once, it may be a fluke. When they see the same problem over and over again, they know that it's something to watch out for. You don't need "controlled experiments" to know that a problem that you see repeatedly is likely to occur again.
For those who have never been to one of these shops, I suggest you stop by, and chat with the folks who work there. You'll be surprised just how much they DO know based on the patterns of problems they see among their customers.
Our reliable source at Comptech offered the following observation today.
He has seen several ball joints damaged from heat on the rear but not on the fronts. He did note that it is quite possible to damage the fronts if one is running OEM rotors with no proper ducting. The DaliRacing air deflectors help but most of the air is directed to the bottom. So very aggressive driving/braking may cause such damage on OEM rotors - but he has not seen them.
He also noted that he has not seen any such damage with the Brembo rotors because the fins inside the rotors draw in air to cool the rotors more so than the OEM; plus, the larger rotor size absorbs more heat.
So, while one reputable dealer has observed the front ball joints being damaged (and no one is questioning their technical expertise), another has seen the damage to the rears but not the fronts. I am sure there are many variables in here, but this type of sharing info is what is needed to find the whys and the alternative solutions to meet each one's own needs and circumstances.
I have a call to Neillo Acura as well. And I also realized that I forgot to include Barn Man, Larry Bastanza in the list above ...... and if I left others out, my apologies in advance. We have a wealth of information out there. Let's pool it.
HTH
He has seen several ball joints damaged from heat on the rear but not on the fronts. He did note that it is quite possible to damage the fronts if one is running OEM rotors with no proper ducting. The DaliRacing air deflectors help but most of the air is directed to the bottom. So very aggressive driving/braking may cause such damage on OEM rotors - but he has not seen them.
He also noted that he has not seen any such damage with the Brembo rotors because the fins inside the rotors draw in air to cool the rotors more so than the OEM; plus, the larger rotor size absorbs more heat.
So, while one reputable dealer has observed the front ball joints being damaged (and no one is questioning their technical expertise), another has seen the damage to the rears but not the fronts. I am sure there are many variables in here, but this type of sharing info is what is needed to find the whys and the alternative solutions to meet each one's own needs and circumstances.
I have a call to Neillo Acura as well. And I also realized that I forgot to include Barn Man, Larry Bastanza in the list above ...... and if I left others out, my apologies in advance. We have a wealth of information out there. Let's pool it.
HTH
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