Price check and questions on potential NSX purchase

Price check and questions on potential NSX purchase - pics and vids

So I received a used car information package from a seller, and noticed that a number of the past registrants are car dealers or subsidiaries of the dealers (i.e., leasing/financing operations). Is this common practice in Ontario/Canada? On top of that the first party to register the car in August 1990 seems to be a company, any ideas? Only 3/7 (including current owner) seems to be individual owners.

I checked Carproof and it indicates that the car has spent its entire life in Ontario.

Also, another question that is completely unrelated to the above. The Carproof shows an insurance claim of ~$1800 was made in 2004, is this deemed to be a lot for a NSX? I understand that it is difficult to gauge the impact of the damage based on just the cost, but maybe some of you guys can pitch in your $0.02. Unfortunately, I was also told by the current owner that all documentations of the car were lost in a move a couple of years ago. No maintenance records, documentations of anything. Owner has only done oil changes in his 8-9 yr ownership. It also appears that the car has only been driven ~3,000 km in his ownership based on the difference in the current mileage and the mileage on the used car information package when current owner purchased it.

AC is out (may be an expensive fix from what I have been reading), TB&WP needs to be replaced for sure, windows are slow.

The price definitely reflects the work needed.

Thanks.

I wouldn't be worried about seeing a number of dealers on the ownership. Check the dates, I bet a few of those ownership swaps occur within months of each other. Probably a trade in situation, but the NSX is so niche, the dealer probably wanted it off its lot ASAP, and sold it/transferred to another dealer. Don't quote me, but that's just my understanding of what happens most of the time with "special cars".

$1800 doesn't seem like a whole lot of a claim. Probably a single panel of bodywork, and the associated couple of hours to fix and/or paint the panel to match. I'd be worried if the claim was something like 4-5K. That's many parts and many hours of labour.

Only 3K km in 8-9 years of ownership is very low, but not uncommon for NSXs. Most for sale ads begin with "I don't drive this car enough". Expect to replace all of the fluids and expect some creaks and groans during a test drive, as some of the suspension bushings probably haven't budged in years! Probably needs new tires too.

All NSX windows are slow, even the fixed ones!

Good luck with your search!

Regards,

Lucas

Thanks for the response, Lucas. :smile:


EDIT: Can anyone recommend/suggest a place to get a PPI done near Windsor? Initially I wanted to meet up with the seller and perform the PPI at NSXCC (by Rob Magro), however, since the seller has a newborn he can't drive 4-5 hrs one way to Oakville.

Andr3w said:

Thanks for the response, Lucas. :smile:


EDIT: Can anyone recommend/suggest a place to get a PPI done near Windsor? Initially I wanted to meet up with the seller and perform the PPI at NSXCC (by Rob Magro), however, since the seller has a newborn he can't drive 4-5 hrs one way to Oakville.

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Ask if you can go for an 8-10 hour test drive. You have to see the car before buying it.

Tony Montoya said:

Ask if you can go for an 8-10 hour test drive. You have to see the car before buying it.

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Seeing the car this weekend. :smile:

It is absolutely redundant for me to see it, as I am not mechanically inclined. That is unless there are obvious visual defects. If the car is as good as the seller advertises and he is completely honest with the problems then there should be no issue. Also, I did offer a deposit.

Andrew PM me, if you want me to do a PPI.

Bram

I agreed to buy a car in BC before seeing it. It had a claim for 1800 to replace the windshield.

Andr3w said:

Seeing the car this weekend. :smile:

It is absolutely redundant for me to see it, as I am not mechanically inclined. That is unless there are obvious visual defects. If the car is as good as the seller advertises and he is completely honest with the problems then there should be no issue. Also, I did offer a deposit.

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Personally, I would initially trust the owner, but verify as much as you can before purchasing the car.

You don't have to be an expert! The NSXPrime Wiki has some great pre-purchase information, including stuff you can look for yourself (https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Category:Purchasing_an_NSX); personally I like the Hondatuning PPI list.

Once you've done your due diligence, then it's time for that PPI.


Good luck!

Mr. Fuji said:

Personally, I would initially trust the owner, but verify as much as you can before purchasing the car.

You don't have to be an expert! The NSXPrime Wiki has some great pre-purchase information, including stuff you can look for yourself (https://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Category:Purchasing_an_NSX); personally I like the Hondatuning PPI list.

Once you've done your due diligence, then it's time for that PPI.


Good luck!

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[MENTION=22481]Mr. Fuji[/MENTION] Thanks a lot for the link! I'll keep you guys posted and more questions may arise after I see it.
[MENTION=8768]Bram[/MENTION] seller doesn't want to drive to oakville. It's a 3hr drive for him

EDIT: Can someone post a picture of the engine bay with the location of the transmission number label? There's info on the WIKI with instructions, but no diagram. Thank you

So I went to look at a NSX today. After a 4 hours drive one way, I finally arrived at the seller's house in Windsor. The drive was exhausting (especially through the city with the heavy traffic), but pretty interesting. My family and I went on a road trip to Michigan a few years back taking the same route so it was pretty nostalgic. Anyways, on to the stats...

-1991 Canadian Car with 140,000 km (87,000 miles) and clean title

-7 Owners including current. 4/7 are dealers/finance or lease subsidiary

-Not sure if in snap ring range. Tried looking for the transmission VIN, but couldn't find it

-Current owner has owned the car 9 years, but has only driven it for 4,000 km (2,500 miles)

-ISSUES:
1. No maintenance records
2. Current owner said he lost the records in a move, and he has only done oil changes. The oil changes are done at his home by his friend. He said he uses Mobil 1 synthetic and changes the oil at the start of every season. The closest Acura dealer to his home is 2 hours away.
3. Air conditioner is not blowing cold air (at any setting)
4. Passenger door lock is not working, and creates a weird sound when it is shut. Sort of like a piece of metal falling off on the inside and creating clings
5. Scheduled maintenances are definitely deferred
6. Tires are at least 9 years old
7. Carproof shows a $1800 CAD repair
8. Driver seat bolsters are torn
9. Driver sun visor has a huge rip (maybe a circle with a diameter of 6-7cm), forgot to take a picture

-Asking price: *REMOVED*

I have no experiences with cars so I tried my best reading up on the wiki last night to familiarize myself. I don't mind so much about the exterior and interior conditions. I am more worried about the mechanics of the vehicle (i.e., engine, transmission, clutch, brakes etc.). Should I even bother with a PPI and compression test? I know PPI results will depend on the experience of the tech, but can a compression test really show the health of the engine?

Here are the videos of the car:

https://youtu.be/Ur8bVA0qOaI - Local, with both windows up and down (got quite toasty inside cabin with the beautiful weather!)

https://youtu.be/YPgxzC2_D1s - Highway merge, VTEC just kicked in yo!

https://youtu.be/W6NMCWeVW1c

https://youtu.be/ibQdIfsS6PM


Here are the images of the car:



















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I'd walk just because the car was repainted. It needs a PPI. Oil pressure is too low but it could be the gauge. Temp and volts look OK. NSX fit is perfectly even on non crashed cars although the gaps are wider than on other cars.
You should look at more NSXs even if this one is an above average 91 NSX.

what's the vin#?

@nsx7 *REMOVED

Here are the videos:

https://youtu.be/Ur8bVA0qOaI - Local, with both windows up and down (got quite toasty inside cabin with the beautiful weather!)

https://youtu.be/YPgxzC2_D1s - Highway merge, VTEC just kicked in yo!

https://youtu.be/W6NMCWeVW1c

https://youtu.be/ibQdIfsS6PM

http://tinypic.com/r/28kk7dz/9

http://tinypic.com/r/2rpwqhe/9

http://tinypic.com/r/11qseaf/9

http://tinypic.com/r/20r37np/9

A good compression test will not guarantee you that the engine has no issues. However, a bad compression test will guarantee that you do have engine issues. Considering that this car appears that it has not had the most appreciative owner, I would consider a compression test a must. I would also highly advise a complete PPI (did you contact Bram?). The clicking you heard could be the lost motion assembly in the valve train which is a really common, non fatal problem in early cars and fairly easy to fix with later versions of the LMA. It could also be excess valve clearance or it could be something bad.

The wear and tear on the car is probably higher than the norm for NSXs, particularly if they are owned by an aficionados. However, it is probably better than the average 1991 car on the market. Things like cracked signal lights are an annoyance if you are looking for a perfect car; but, not necessarily a sign of abuse. The evidence of repainting and panel alignment is a bigger potential issue and certainly warrants the $ spent on a PPI.

When I bought my 2000 in 2011, there is no way that I would have paid the asking price for the car that you are looking at. However, that was then and this is now. The market has definitely changed. I would not necessarily write the car off; however, based upon the photos and the lack of records, I still would not pay the asking price. Assuming no significant damage, it would take $5000 - $10,000 to get the physical appearance of the car into something that I would be happy with (somewhere between #3 or better). Engine & Drivetrain issues would be on top of that.

Hagerty US pricing puts a #4 condition 1991 at around $28,000 US, so this car is kind of in the market price range. I would try to negotiate a lower price because you likely have a lot of maintenance issues to deal with. Don't buy it without the all important PPI. Also, if you are not going to be happy with the cosmetic issues, after you add $10,000 on to the negotiated price to fix that stuff, you might be able to do better elsewhere.

I thought this could be my old NSX - but I could not find the VIN# in my records

If you see MVL Leasing as one of the dealers listed, then most likely it is my old NSX

Based on the UVIP, the car has been around the Windsor/Kingsville area. Is your name Garth or Gregori by any chance?

Those SWBattes old wheels?

Id pass on that car unless you want a project. There is a long list of things that need to be fixed.

It all comes down to how much you want the car. What are your alternatives? At $33k, this is probably one of the cheapest NSXs on the market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't bee too scared of the car, however, here's what I think it will take to get the car on the road and up to a level which would make you proud.

Purchase:

$33,000 - It's a sellers market, I don't think you'd get in too far under that
$350 - PPI including compression and leak down test.
$4,290 - Governments 13%; Death and taxes. The only way you can avoid the latter is through the former.
$37,640 - assuming it needs nothing for a safety or E-test

Required maintenance
~$1,700 - Timing belt/water pump parts (inc tax)
$800 - TB/WP labour, should include valve gaskets and valve adjustment.
$600 - Coolant hoses (inc tax) http://shop.teknotik.com/cooling/oem-honda-nsx-full-hose-kit.html
$800 - installation of hoses, there is 23 of them!
~$1,000 - Tires - I really don't recommend that you drive on 13 year old tires
$100 - Oil change
$5,000 - Assuming that there are no surprises (cam plugs, LMA's etc)

Appearance items:

$400 - bumper adjustment. Hopefully this is just fiddling with it until everything in the front end lines up, and there haven't been any accidents.
~$1,000 - paint work. Touch up, including the nasty spiderweb on the front bumper
$800 - full paint correction and detail. Hopefully, they'll be able to get the engine bay cleaned up during this time as well.
$2,200 in appearance improvements

Future:

$175 - new floor mats (including tax) http://shop.teknotik.com/oem-honda-nsx-zanardi-floor-mats.html
$1200 - reupholster seats. I assume you wouldn't want the base level kit from leatherseats.com ($900), and will want full leather etc.
$400 - front signal markers http://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...-heater-fuel-cat/front-combination-light-scat
$1,775

So a quick run - down on your out of pocket costs within the first year of ownership, assuming it needs no further repairs:

$37,640 - Purchase - Assuming it needs nothing for a safety or E-test
$5,000 - Required maintenance - Assuming that there are no surprises (cam plugs, LMA's etc)
$2,200 - Appearance improvements
$1,775 - Future upgrades?

$46,615 total including all upgrades
$44,840 without "Future upgrades"

As I said, don't be afraid of this car (pending a mechanical inspection of course) but go in with your eyes open and you should be fine!

Good luck, and let us know how it works out!

BioBanker said:

Those SWBattes old wheels?

Id pass on that car unless you want a project. There is a long list of things that need to be fixed.

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If it was an automatic you couldn't give it away.

No - different car

@Old Guy thanks for the detailed response. There is no way in hell I am buying this car without a PPI and a compression test.

@dablackgoku1234 I don't have any alternatives. Every seller except for this one who has contacted me has a high mileage 180k+ km with lots of mods. The best one I have seen is probably the one that sold last year with up to date maintenances (window regs replaced, fixed Bose head unit, ccu), 82k km for $36k by an older gentleman in Brantford named David K.

@Sean Firth thank you for breaking down the cost. Car has a $1800 repair (labelled miscellaneous) on car proof. Not sure if there are additional accidents that are unreported. I'll leave that to the PPI. The air conditioner is not blowing cold air.

Seller got the etest done a few weeks ago and the car passed. I'm going to compare the results with ones posted online to see if the car is at least average.

strange, I have not seen this car drive around the Windsor area.

Its a seller's market and a 1991 Canadian car with a low serial number - #39 ? wow!, this is truly one of the original NSXs, he'd be crazy to go below $33k, despite all the issues with the car......

Andr3w, Sean has broken down costs very well for you. There may be other items lurking that will need attention. I think your decision hinges on not just the PPI results but your appetite for what is a bit of a project to say the least. Be patient and if you don't have the appetite for a project/can't do some of the work yourself or have someone who will do some of the work outside of dealership, might be best to take a pass and hold out for something better (might cost more but in the end you might be better off with a more "well-loved" car -- this one is/was not well loved). Realizing everyone is different, some might be OK with this car. I would not but that's just me.
Best,
Jeff

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nikey22 said:

strange, I have not seen this car drive around the Windsor area.

Its a seller's market and a 1991 Canadian car with a low serial number - #39 ? wow!, this is truly one of the original NSXs, he'd be crazy to go below $33k, despite all the issues with the car......

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Nikey hope you are doing well. Haven't talked with you in a while. Check out Midwest Michigan board for upcoming get together in Aug -- consider joining us. In case you don't recall, I'm the Canuck who lives in Farmington Hills and has a Formula Red /94 -- #312 !

Best,
Jeff