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Building a better Ball Joint for the NSX - Carbon 6 Composites

Joined
5 October 2005
Messages
1,455
Location
Appleton WI
About a year ago we started working on OEM replacement front ball joints for the NSX. Since the new parts are no longer available or very
scarce, we needed some options for many of the NSX's we service in our area. Originally, our idea we to make a matched version of the
original. Once we took one apart to measure the geometry of the OEM part we realized there was some improvements to be made. The original
part uses an inexpensive plastic liner that is crimped inside a metal housing. This is fine (like most cars on the road today) but I know
most of you out there would like a better option. Especially those with lowered cars that tend to wear out ball joints faster. So we
decided to start from scratch...

The development of the new ball joint started with 3 main characteristics. First, we needed a part that fit exactly as the original and
maintained the stock suspension geometry. Second, increase the lateral load capacity (force on the suspension when cornering). Third,
test and verify to maximize strength, corrosion resistance and longevity.

Over the last 9 months we have built many prototypes using various metal alloys, hardware and designs. We have studied the fitment and
reviewed the overall performance of each. Here are the results of the final part...

IMG_3214.jpg

IMG_3210.jpg

IMG_3211.jpg

IMG_3212.jpg


1. Fitment:
Not only do our ball joints file like OEM, they fit better. We have increased the contact surface of taper in the control arm to make sure
they fit exactly. The OEM ball joints were only making about 70% contact on the taper of the control arm. Ours fits the taper 100%.
Our housings fit as a direct replacement. No modifications needed. Also included is a custom Titanium Nyloc nut that we developed to
replace the castle nut and cotter pin.


2. Strength:
Our final product dramatically exceeds lateral load capacity of the OEM based on material testing. Why is that so important?
The ability of the components to take such a high lateral load shows the high potential of extended longevity of the part under normal driving.
It also shows ability to easily manage lateral loads in excess of anything the car would be put under in the most extreme driving conditions.


3. Test and Verify:
Like we do on many of our products, we have gone to an all Titanium shaft and hardware set up. Titanium has the best strength to weight
characteristics and is less prone to scaring and corrosion than steel or aluminum. It's a bit more costly to make but make a much better part.
We also very closely measured the movement of the actual suspension to make sure the part worked through the operating range of motion. Our
ball joint housings come with a premium Nickel based plating on them to increase corrosion resistance. Our goal was to build a part that lasts
the entire life of the car.


Additional Benefits:
1. Our ball joint design will allow for easier service of the suspension by allowing you to leave the internal tapered shaft in the control arm
and removing the apex bolt from the ball joint. This allows you to easily slide the control arm away from the knuckle without having to
press or wedge the taper apart.
2. The cup that seals the bottom opening utilizes an oring that, once installed, prevents dirt and moisture from getting in and contaminating the lubricating grease inside.
3. Completely Servicable. If for any reason you need to replace any part of the assembly. They are all available though us.

Rubber Boot:
We designed the ball joint to utilize the OEM boots from Honda. However, we are finding it difficult to source all the boots we need. There appears to be a
limited supply of these. We do have an order in with Honda for enough for the initial batch but instead of depleting all the inventory of them, we have decided
to make high strength urethane ones for future production runs.

Installation:
We are only offering these Ball Joints if we install them. There is a very high risk of damaging the front knuckle and/or the ball joints if they are not removed
and reinstalled correctly. We have machined special tools and press jigs to insure it is done safely and correctly. We are offering a special package to
replace all 4 front outer ball joints. All you would need to do is send us your front knuckles.

Here is a price breakdown:
Each Outer Ball Joint assembly (Front Upper or Front Lower) is $199/ea.
If you buy all 4 for the front, they are $179/ea.
Installation Service is $79 on all 4, $49 for 2 and $29 for 1 (plus return shipping). This includes the removal of your old ball joint(s) and re-installation of
the new one(s).

We have 30 of each available on our first run. We are planning on running another batch in the next 4-6 weeks so that all that need them can have
their cars ready for spring.

IMG_3341.jpg

IMG_3342.jpg

IMG_3343.jpg

IMG_3339.jpg
 
Just to clarify, we can just a take out control arms off and send them to use for them to be installed ....
 
Just to clarify, we can just a take out control arms off and send them to use for them to be installed ....

Correct. Once you separate the ball joints, tie rod, brake caliper and the abs sensor from the knuckle. It will be separate from the car. Removing the wheel bearing assembly (4 nuts) will make it easier to pack and much lighter as well.
It will look like the last picture above.
 
Jeff, do you have any pictures of the ball joint completely apart?

Also looks like the cap is press fit not screwed in. I assume no issues especially for the lower ones to come off on wheel impact (potholes etc).

And one last question: why no love for castle nut with locking cotter pin? Just curious.

These look great.
 
Jeff, do you have any pictures of the ball joint completely apart?

Also looks like the cap is press fit not screwed in. I assume no issues especially for the lower ones to come off on wheel impact (potholes etc).

And one last question: why no love for castle nut with locking cotter pin? Just curious.

These look great.

Here is a picture of the bottom side open. You can see the special apex bold we designed. The rest is "proprietary" ;)

IMG_3209.jpg

There is an oring and a mating grove in the housing. They are a very tight fit once engaged and locked together. We have had no issues with them coming lose.

The castle nut works fine. We just wanted a cleaner look and install.
 
Here is a picture of the bottom side open. You can see the special apex bold we designed. The rest is "proprietary" ;)

There is an oring and a mating grove in the housing. They are a very tight fit once engaged and locked together. We have had no issues with them coming lose.

The castle nut works fine. We just wanted a cleaner look and install.

Thanks Jeff. I think my favorite design part is this: Our ball joint design will allow for easier service of the suspension by allowing you to leave the internal tapered shaft in the control arm and removing the apex bolt from the ball joint.
 
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Jeff, thank you for opening this option up for our small but dedicated market. I don't need the ball joints yet but look forward to buying these when I do (probably sooner than I expect, the way I've had to be driving haha).
 
Beautiful looking part. Glad you are supporting the community with these new parts. If I ever need to replace mine, this will definitely be an option.
 
Okay, We should have those boots from Honda in 5-7 days. I will update this thread as we are ready to accept incoming parts for replacement.

Awesome. I'll be traveling on business for a few weeks and will take off the assembly as soon as I can.
 
Awesome...More Carbon 6 parts to stock for 'future' replacement.
Is there a sign-up list? and when are you making ball joints for the rear ;)
 
Awesome...More Carbon 6 parts to stock for 'future' replacement.
Is there a sign-up list? and when are you making ball joints for the rear ;)

We are not doing a sign up list as of now. We should have enough to do the most urgent customers right away and create some back stock for those that want to set a service time on their own.

The rear are also in the works. As well at a toe link for the rear. Those may be a little ways out yet while we shift our production to some carbon/ceramic parts for the NSX we have been working on also.
 
Amazing Jeff!

My ball joints are good for now, but if need replacement i'll go with your product for sure!

since your ball joints are made of titanium do you have weight comparison with OEM?

When you offer the rear toe links I'll be interested! are those non compliance? Are you also going to offer the Non-Compliance Rear Beam Bushings?

Very interested to know what other carbon/ceramic parts you are going to offer in the future! but i understand this could be confidential for now...




We are not doing a sign up list as of now. We should have enough to do the most urgent customers right away and create some back stock for those that want to set a service time on their own.

The rear are also in the works. As well at a toe link for the rear. Those may be a little ways out yet while we shift our production to some carbon/ceramic parts for the NSX we have been working on also.
 
Jeff, do you have any pictures of the ball joint completely apart?

Also looks like the cap is press fit not screwed in. I assume no issues especially for the lower ones to come off on wheel impact (potholes etc).

And one last question: why no love for castle nut with locking cotter pin? Just curious.

These look great.
Looks like a very high quality product, but the observations mentioned above, particularly the absence of a pin would have me second guessing my purchase, then again maybe there is room on the thread for the addition of a second nut or the use of Locktight can come in handy!
 
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Jeff,
Car's in the shop now for some paint, but as soon as I can get those control arms out I'm sending them in for a set of upper and lower front, both ends. I'll PM you. Thanks for creating this option! Looks awesome.
 
Carbon 6: How to build a Huayra on a budget.

- - - Updated - - -

Makes me wish my ball joints were bad.
 
Looks like a very high quality product, but the observations mentioned above, particularly the absence of a pin would have me second guessing my purchase, then again maybe there is room on the thread for the addition of a second nut or the use of Locktight can come in handy!

We looked at many options. Sense the load on the joint is transferred through the taper laterally, not vertically, The force on the nut is minimal once installed. We also have a very tight tolerance on the threads-to-nut. That combined with the Nyloc insert creates a very tough mechanical lock from backing out. You could use a Green Loctite (retaining compound) as additional security if you wanted.
 
Best I start pulling some stuff of the front of the car then, curious on the "carbon/ceramic parts" comment
 
Hi Jeff,

being from Europe, the shipping of both knuckles, heavy, both ways would be
very expensive... can't you make a exception for international NSXers, and
send the ball joints?

i know the risks and have to find a trust worthy shop to replace them, but
any damages would be between me and them, not you.

Mine are good for now, even with the very high mileage, but i know this
will be necessary sooner than later.

Thanks,
Nuno
 
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