So why is 290hp not enough nowadays ?

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nsxsimon

Experienced Member
Joined
23 April 2002
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Location
Toronto, Canada
So why is 290hp not enough these days ?

I have started my process of seriously acquiring a 2002/2003 NSX. I've always wanted one since 2001 and have been through a few s2000's during those years. However, I am surrounded by people who claim I should focus my energy around my other choice a 2007 911 Turbo ? I hear from my mechanic , the nsx is underpowered, why would you want something so low on power nowadays, it so loose , etc. etc..

As of late, I'm surrounded with "horsepower" focused people. (nissan gtr, and corvette owners etc)

Do we live in a day when I could use all that horsepower that Porsche claim a twin turbo can be tweaked to ?

For regular roads, do you really need all that hp ? I know there is a "usable hp" range. But I don't see the justification ?

But more and more as I go through the process, people are trying to justify that the 911 needs that much power ?

Why ? our highways and freeways drastically limit our speeds ? For those who don't got to the track , there's even less reason for it ?

So why do we need 450hp ? I think I'll be just fine with 290hp :-)
 
290HP is pretty good for the NSX -- also pretty good for Porsche Boxsters that costs near as much as the NSX did.

That said, a SC gives the car a lot more low end TQ which makes it more fun around town.
 
It is nice to have a supercharger to add more power to the car but I agree with NetViper 290HP is not that bad of a number. When I do spirit drive with my friends who own Viper, Z06 and Boss 302, they are quite impress on how the NSX ability to keep up on the twisty roads. Now on a straight line, it will be a different story.

Here is a picture on our recent outing:

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ads1TPPGhxjJ4Rp3RJSL9utRDsQo-Ya6xiJQw5Ae5hM?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mw3To9_gwz4/UipXppZIevI/AAAAAAAAYy4/ommIjb9RzJU/s800/IMG_1786.JPG" height="534" width="800" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/natnsx/Drive?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJ6hpZ78wJ76Vw&feat=embedwebsite"></a></td></tr></table>
 
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The overall answer to that question is going to be based on what sort of driver you are and what you are using the car for. If the answer is very experienced track driver who is looking to push the car on a racetrack, then there is very valid statements on 290HP not being "enough".

Based on my personal experiences, a lot of people look at the number and not the whole package. I have a friend with a Z06 who has also spent seat time in his father's ZR1 and Ferrari 360. All 3 of those cars are significantly more powerful than my NSX by pure numbers. I took him for a ride. He was VERY impressed with my cars overall ride and speed. I could tell he wasn't expecting the NSX to light his fire, but a ride in the passenger seat changed his mind. Similar story with a guy who's 1000HP Dodge Viper blew a gasket so I gave him a ride. I hit high RPMs on an on ramp and his statement was "whoa - this thing has some nice balls!"

So be careful about opinions from people who haven't directly experienced the car. I know for me that the car is more than a handful and provides me with more than enough power to hit the twisty country roads at speeds that make my hands clench the steering wheel. It is also enough to give passengers a little thrill when you get on the gas.

However, I have ridden in a supercharged NSX driven by someone experienced and the rocket powered thrust you get in 1st and 2nd gear is noticeably more powerful than what a stock NSX delivers. If you are looking for that instant jet rocket, then more HP is good.

My weak understanding of physics suggests that the bulk of that 450HP is being utilized in two places (1) to get the unmoving object started very, very rapidly (2) to overcome the massive wind resistance that starts to build up beyond 130 MPH and continue to push the vehicle forward in a linear acceleration. Otherwise, I suspect that even those cars with 450HP are only using 200 of it most of the time ;)
 
I don't think 290 is not enough. IMO, what people want to say is 290 is not enough for the money you are paying for an nsx when you can pay similar money for cars with more hp or faster. Also, 290 is plenty for our public roads out there but people always want more hp for a variety of reasons. Otherwise we would all be driving civics or corollas.
 
i keep asking myself the same question. I get in plenty of trouble with my lil 290hp. If i had a Gt-R with mods or something fast, i would have NO DRIVERS LICENSE!
 
The power to weight ratio of the NSX is not that bad.

It's the linear power that blows. I just hate the waiting for VTEC (and it's nothing like a turbo going off) feeling and having to downshift to hang with the torque monsters.

I'm all about as flat or a power-band as plausible.

Hence the:
  • FD
  • GTO
  • S10 (after the blower)
  • and of course a blown NSX
 
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The short answer is because it's a sports car and more power can mean more fun if controlled. Just depends on what you're used to... S2000s are short on torque so the NSX by comparison is plentiful. Now compare it to a 911 turbo and you'll be left wanting more.

Bottom line is the NSX is great as is but as a platform for modding it can eclipse almost anything out there due to its MR layout, timeless looks, quality engineering, and underutilized chassis. Stock 02 NSX vs 997 I think I would take a 997 for $50k+... If it were a turbo vs stock nsx then hands down 911.

It's not just power but what one considers the best blend of characteristics and ownership experience. I wouldn't trade my modded NSX for stock 911 turbo bc I know I can make my car better.
 
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It's a power VS weight issue. The lighter the car the less HP is really required to effect performance. Look at the long thread discussing weight reduction.
These folks no that there is less need for HP as they have less weight to drag along. That being said, I think a SC is a must for this car. It takes it from
sporty to the equal of others super cars being made today.
 
290hp is plenty.

Mine probably makes around that with the bolt-ons (headers, exhaust etc) and I'm keeping up with much faster cars on windy roads. It's all about late braking and insane mechanical grip. Frankly in my opinion the weakness of the NSX compared with modern cars on back roads is just the stock (NA1) brakes - which is why I'm upgrading mine - though on an 02-05 the NA2 brakes might be better.

Now, when I'm tailing my friends in modern McLarens and Ferraris of course they leave me for dead on the freeway on-ramp. But my car is still fun as heck to drive on the highway and on the back roads.

Sometimes I think about supercharging but then I think about the cost ($11k for the kit + install + tuning) and I wonder if it's really worth it. That's a shitload of money. I could buy an E36 M3 and start a track build with those $14k.
 
On the power to weight ratio, by reducing weight and only doing NA minor bolt ons you can achieve a 25% better ratio- which is significant but you're not going to keep up with a 911 turbo... Which will also out brake a stock NSX too and handle corners nicely. FI is the only way to keep the NSX relevant to today's performance standards, not counting what else you need to do along with it like brake upgrades or possibly an engine build. The CT supercharger gets the job done just fine for most people and certainly helps more than bolt ons. Chances are if one is concerned about power mostly then the NSX is not the right car.
 
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Sometimes I think my NSX was at times more fun NA than supercharged. Why? Because I could rev it out more, feel Vtec more at slower speeds. I could hear that intake with the quiet OEM exhaust.... And it was sweet. Do you need more than 290? Yeah you do if you have your ego tied into winning stoplight drag races with some faster cars. Otherwise.... Hell no. The OEM NSX is such a sweeeet machine to drive.
 
Gears or a Supercharger. If that's not enough for you, you're in the wrong car. I have not recommended the NSX to some of my friends because I know what kind of drivers they are. They wouldn't enjoy it. While others I know will love it.

290hp is really just a number. In this car it means nothing :)
 
I have long thought that 300 HP in the right car is enough. Does more HP result in a faster lap time on a track? Sure. Does it translate into more fun? For me, not really.

I have driven a lot of cars on track, including my NSX. My current track toy is a 1990 Miata with a 2001 VVT motor. It puts 140 HP to the ground. I've noticed that the only difference, really, on a track. compared to more powerful cars, is in two places: the first is corner approach speed. In higher HP cars, yes, I might have 20-30 more MPH at the end of a straight, maybe more on a really long straight and have to brake a little earlier. Does it make the Miata any less fun? In my opinion, no.

The other is in the need for throttle modulation on corner exit. In the Miata it's pretty much stand on it (tighter corners not so much). In high HP cars it requires a dance between unwinding the steering wheel and standing on the loud pedal. Is a higher HP car more fun in this situation? Yeah, maybe, but overall, does it really add that much of a dimension to performance driving? Not in my opinion. I have just as much fun or more in my Miata as I have had in any other track car I've owned or driven.

I recall an article by Grassroots Motorsports a few years ago when Brian Redman was invited to drive one of his Porsche 962 (or was it a 956?) prototype-class racers, and then take some laps in a well-prepped Spec Miata.

His comments when he exited his former racecar were along the lines of "yes, that's a serious car and requires utmost concentration to drive well and fast". After exiting the Miata? All smiles, commenting that it was SO much fun.

So, while I'm not really relating apples to apples here, it's a roundabout way to say that no, when a car is truly balanced, as an NSX is, more HP does not necessarily translate into a better driving experience.

(I'm sure I'll get some "yeah, but" reactions from people with -charged NSX's!!! Combine great handling with more HP might be fun, but is it necessary? Maybe not.)
 
I would say that you are missing the point of an NSX if you are looking at HP numbers. Drive one first and you will have the answer to your question.
If you are looking at a BIG number car get a 911 T or a GTR.

Bram
 
A while back my son bought me a morning pounding around the infield road course at LVMS in a F458 Italia. I was afraid that if I drove a 560HP Ferrari I'd never be able to love my NSX the same again ( it doesn't help that the 458 is also probably sexiest looking car in the world). But I couldn't NOT try it.

Long story short I love my NSX even more now. The power and accel of the Fcar was undoubtedly greater but it didn't feel two times greater, I wasnt' like OMG FEEL the POWER!!! or anything. The Ferrari sound doesnt' disappoint and is EPIC and gave me goosebumps but you know what, so does the NSX!

I came away contented that the NSX is, IMHO, at least as much if not possibly more fun to drive than the 458, it feels lower and smaller, has a far superior visability and driving position in a more go-kart,open cockpit kinda wayh, and the handling characteristics felt very similar. I felt right at home throwing the 458 around because it felt so much like the NSX.

I cant' speak to how a 911 feels but "Is 290HP enough?" In the NSX, yes absolutely!!!
 
Bram said:
I would say that you are missing the point of an NSX if you are looking at HP numbers. Drive one first and you will have the answer to your question.
If you are looking at a BIG number car get a 911 T or a GTR.

Bram
Click to expand...

that's my point, I think 290hp is fine. Its just I live in a world where I'm surrounded by the "muscle car" big bhp vehicle owners out there trying to say "nay" to the nsx in this day age.. < sigh >
 
nsxsimon said:
that's my point, I think 290hp is fine. Its just I live in a world where I'm surrounded by the "muscle car" big bhp vehicle owners out there trying to say "nay" to the nsx in this day age.. < sigh >
Click to expand...
I think it's changing. The poster child for cheap sportscars in 2013 has been the GT86/FRS/BRZ. It puts down 160wHP but the youngins' who have bought them seem to "get it". Have to give some of them credit. They are migrating to a function > form mindset as well. My outlook on humanity has been partially renewed ;)

I'm selfishly happy the Hellaflush fad seems to be on its deathbed. I use to see them more in the LA freeways and I was scared to death their wheel bearings would give out and put me in danger.
 
I'm of the mind set that the NSX only needs minor less dramatic and obvious upgrades in performance that will enhance the driving experience. On my 02, I want to just let the engine breath a little better with headers, exhaust, Down Force scoop, K&N air filter and large throttle body. For handling, I installed Bilsteins on low setting and NSX-R chassis kit. I like the stock 02 wheels, especially since I had them refinished, but I might put 5mm or 15mm spacers on them. I don't know what the HP is on this setup and I don't really care. Though I'm sure it's a little better. With this setup it will sound awesome but not too loud and stick to the road a little better without a harsh ride. It's a bang for the buck kind of thing. Plus the car retains its original character.
 
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nsxsimon said:
So why is 290hp not enough these days ?

I have started my process of seriously acquiring a 2002/2003 NSX. I've always wanted one since 2001 and have been through a few s2000's during those years. However, I am surrounded by people who claim I should focus my energy around my other choice a 2007 911 Turbo ? I hear from my mechanic , the nsx is underpowered, why would you want something so low on power nowadays, it so loose , etc. etc..

As of late, I'm surrounded with "horsepower" focused people. (nissan gtr, and corvette owners etc)

Do we live in a day when I could use all that horsepower that Porsche claim a twin turbo can be tweaked to ?

For regular roads, do you really need all that hp ? I know there is a "usable hp" range. But I don't see the justification ?

But more and more as I go through the process, people are trying to justify that the 911 needs that much power ?

Why ? our highways and freeways drastically limit our speeds ? For those who don't got to the track , there's even less reason for it ?

So why do we need 450hp ? I think I'll be just fine with 290hp :-)
Click to expand...

A thought provoking topic, likely to get many replies. I'll throw mine in here and make it short. While I am certainly no heavyweight in the power and driving-abilities sectors, I have found that when I am in the proper gear (2004 Imola 6 speed with very minor mods i.e. exhaust/NSX-R bars) there is not much out there that will embarass me. I sometimes flog it on the street, and on the freeways. Power seems sufficient, and will accumulate plenty of points (called "demerits" in Ontario) if not cautious with the go pedal.

NSXSimon you have been on this forum for a looong time, and obviously know your performance cars. But here is the factor that would pursuade me if I was in your shoes. Ontario's street racing laws. In my opinion, ridiculously harsh and draconian. It would seem to me that more power = quicker acceleration = higher top end = opportunity for street racing troubles. :frown:

One last thing. Resale, if and when you decide to sell your 2002/2003 NSX.

JMOICBW.
 
Stock 02 NSX vs 997 I think I would take a 997 for $50k+... QUOTE said:
NFW

The 997 is a great car; I have had the opportunity to drive the C2 and C2S on many occasions however, I would NEVER take a stock 997 over Any NSX; (02, pre-02 etc).
Click to expand...
 
nsxsimon said:
So why is 290hp not enough these days ?


As of late, I'm surrounded with "horsepower" focused people. (nissan gtr, and corvette owners etc)

Do we live in a day when I could use all that horsepower that Porsche claim a twin turbo can be tweaked to ?

For regular roads, do you really need all that hp ? I know there is a "usable hp" range. But I don't see the justification ?

But more and more as I go through the process, people are trying to justify that the 911 needs that much power ?

Why ? our highways and freeways drastically limit our speeds ? For those who don't got to the track , there's even less reason for it ?

So why do we need 450hp ? I think I'll be just fine with 290hp :-)
Click to expand...
You are surrounded by the wrong type of people (hp-focused, and press releases, marketing materials).
Talk to Lotus, Mini, and track drivers...they will talk about big hp vs handling/skill.
You are looking at a scalpal not a mallet...skill/precision vs. overwhelming force.
If you are trying to rationalize a (preceived) horsepower deficit...I don't think you can win (1,000 hp Vettes, Camaros, Supras, etc...)

I really think of the old Kung Fu TV show (Zen-like confidence)...not big, flashy, or muscular...but don't mess with it on twisty/winding roads. Its really hp vs weight.
 
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