Seats group buy: interested?

Hey guys I have been holding back about posting this until I had more exact info, but I would like to get an idea of how many people here would be interested in being part of a large group buy for seats. I want to change my own seats to something more appropriate for my purposes, so I have been doing a lot of research over months. I have sort of come to the conclusion that I have quite a few requirements for a good seat:

1) light weight
2) good fit in the NSX
3) safe structure
4) compatible with both a harness and factory 3 point belts in a proper and safe manner
5) large enough to fit comfortably for most people
6) A quality finish, beyond the standard cheap cloth that comes on most racing seats. Leather, quality alcantara, or a mix of both.
7) possible head protection option that is removable for street driving
8) reasonable entry and exit ease

One thing I have really found is that you can get the best seat... The lightest weight, the best fit, the best safety... And have it become a heavy, ill-fitting, unsafe seat very quickly with the wrong rail.

In fact the idea of a random seat with a generic rail is wrong to me. These need to be designed as a "system" for a purpose. A true custom rail for a PARTICULAR seat design. I find it counterproductive to spend a lot of money on a seat that is 9 pounds for example, then install it on a typical rail that is 16 or 20 pounds. It is counter-productive to buy a seat that is FIA certified, but is use it with a 3-point it was never designed for and be completely unsafe.

My goal is to pick a really really good seat that meets most of not all the criteria I listed above. Then I want to work with someone to make a proper rail custom machined for the best fit of that particular seat. Light in weight, strong without generic cuts and bolt holes... One that places the seat at a perfect angle and height for the most room in the NSX. One that can also possible have a quick dismount option, so the seat can quickly come off the rail for racing, cleaning, or simply a swap of seat type.

Such a seat and mount won't come cheap. It will most likely be very pricey. But I can really work on getting the price down if we get enough buyers. I've learned that the right product at the right price will get a ton of support on this forum. I saw it with my RSII GB, and now with the Comptech engineering supercharger GB.

With that kind of support, we can all get an incredible seat at an incredible price. I have been looking at everything... Recaro, bride, downforce, sparco, status, F1, momo, corbeau, OMP, Cobra, racetech, Simpson, Sabelt and Takata. Any other suggestions are welcome.

I have been taking a lot of measurements and taking a lot of notes. I have a little binder that says "seats and rails" on my nightstand. LOL. I won't do anything honestly until I am done with the big supercharger GB. I just don't have the time, and I need time for more research. So if you need a seat tomorrow, don't wait for my GB. It won't happen for a few months still.

But if you have an interest in this, or input or ideas, please post here.

Thanks guys.

In!

I want seats with a carbon fiber backing.

Thanks for doing this. It seems like there's just not alot of info out there for the 'ultimate' nsx seat, especially if your waist is not 32" or less! Let alone seat rails to make it all work properly.

Are you aiming to keep the oem power sliders?

I've actually been looking at seats as well. The only 2 that I have been able to narrow it down was recaro pole positions in jersey red or downforce seats in red.... Price point is miles apart but I would be willing to wait for the downforce seats if price can be lowered through the group buy. Let us know.

excellon said:

In!

I want seats with a carbon fiber backing.

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I am concerned about weight, and a proper carbon seat is stronger than FRP. So I will probably only be looking at carbon fiber or carbon Kevlar. I am researching into the advantages of each material, and if anyone has opinions on the two, please post.

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jcbadcura said:

Thanks for doing this. It seems like there's just not alot of info out there for the 'ultimate' nsx seat, especially if your waist is not 32" or less! Let alone seat rails to make it all work properly.

Are you aiming to keep the oem power sliders?

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I don't think so. I don't a power seat as a necessary item in a lightweight sports car. It only adds weight, and believe it or not, takes away from the rigidity. One of the reasons some downforce seats are so expensive is in the effort to try to keep the OEM power. Do you know what is involved in that? The actually take the rail and have to cut the back that goes into the seat back for the told mechanism. We are talking about torching a steel OEM rail. It's a lot of work. Then there is another huge cost involved in buying the OEM type R switch to operate the thing. All of this adds something like $1000 to the cost. And for what... Is having the convenience of power seats that important? I don't think it is.

With a properly machined mount, you can reduce weight by like 15 pounds PER SEAT. I am in the early stages of this but I really want to go into this further. The rail is a critical often overlooked component. Everyone talks about the seat. But the rail is half the final product. I've some some rails that I personally consider unsafe. I am not going to sacrifice safety. The seat is the last line of protection between your spine, your torso, your head, and a mangled car. Reclining seats also, although they provide a convenience for some, are both heavier and less safe.

You can custom machine a mount that is very strong and very light if you give up some of these comfort features that frankly, are rarely ever used.

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ALwAyS4SaLe said:

I've actually been looking at seats as well. The only 2 that I have been able to narrow it down was recaro pole positions in jersey red or downforce seats in red.... Price point is miles apart but I would be willing to wait for the downforce seats if price can be lowered through the group buy. Let us know.

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I have said his before, I am not a huge fan of the pole position. It's not particularly light, it is very tight and fits really small guys. It is not safe. The safe version is not sold in the U.S. I know there may be work arounds, but I am trying to avoid all that stuff. The downforce seat is on a whole level better as far as I am concerned. It is a seat that is at the top of my list... But I have some level of concern whether downforce can actually deliver on a large GB. Perhaps I can get more priority when we have a long list of people, but I also know what it costs to produce that seat and it isn't low. I love Peter and downforce, I think they are great guys.. And you can be sure I will speak to them and give them some priority. But if the GB is being out together by me, I want to make sure there is timely delivery and support. I want to make sure we get a lot of value. I mean anyone can put together a group buy. It's not that hard. Just start a list. It's not what I want to do. I don't do these to make a profit. I do these so I can deliver value to all of us. Part of that is making the manufacturer do things they may not normally do. Part of that is making them make certain sacrifices. I've already been approached to start certain seat GB's... But the end result of that is that it will ultimately go nowhere. A handful of 3-5 guys will sign up, and that's that. Because there was no real value. No research, no testing, no innovation on something unique, no group of dedicated people put together, no hard negotiation by someone who doesn't have an interest in making a cut on every seat.

Hi Dave,

Having sat in both PP and the OEM R seats, there is simply no comparison. The perfect solution is a reality check conversation for OEM shells/runners/cushions but I fear even your negotiations skills my not be able to reach out.

DF seemed a good option but other ventures has hit their ability to meet production asks so many sales have slipped them by ... I'd be sat on them now if only they had returned calls and mails more often.

These seats fit, offer OEM std seat comfort an you know these are the ones people want .... If only there was an alternative production facility ;0)

Regards, Paul

From what I believe I read before in another thread, Source 1 was already going to set up a group buy with Downforce but Downforce explained that even then, they only want to do a small, limited number production run.

Damn you and your Group Buys.

I'M IN!!!

I have some design ideas for a seat mount and rail. I'm going to talk to tiDave and see what he can make. I don't like any of the current rails.

TURBO2GO said:

I have some design ideas for a seat mount and rail. I'm going to talk to tiDave and see what he can make. I don't like any of the current rails.

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nice....maybe i should wait...

Dave, As far as a group buy goes for the DF seats they will not be able to do a large order with any discounts. I have been working on them for this for almost a year. And after talking to Peter and Thomas they simply don't have the ability to do it. The seats are costly to produce and very time consuming. Sadly these things are the best out there but they are expensive and tough to get..

RYU said:

Damn you and your Group Buys.

I'M IN!!!

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x2 Depening on price.


Even some nice Recaro's would be sweet!

Recaro pole position ABE is probably your best bet. Or the mugen RR seats!!!

SOURCENSX said:

Dave, As far as a group buy goes for the DF seats they will not be able to do a large order with any discounts. I have been working on them for this for almost a year. And after talking to Peter and Thomas they simply don't have the ability to do it. The seats are costly to produce and very time consuming. Sadly these things are the best out there but they are expensive and tough to get..

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Yes, I was somewhat aware of that. Unfortunately they just don't have the same capabilities of scale as a regular seat manufacturer. And while I do like their seat a lot, I think there are other options.

I think i'm too big to fit in pole positions. I have a feeling we might get the most out of this if we dealt with a brand that offers multiple sizes like bride. Then again im not the GB expert!!

RYU said:

I think i'm too big to fit in pole positions. I have a feeling we might get the most out of this if we dealt with a brand that offers multiple sizes like bride. Then again im not the GB expert!!

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I am not doing pole positions. It doesn't fit any of my criteria. We will either have multiple sizing or it will be something bigger.

I want black leather ABEs! Anyone make something similar with a Lil more room?

I'm in for this. My next track mods are better seats and harness since I removed my airbags.

I am tentatively in depending on the final choice for seats. I got to sit in the r seats in Japan and they're great. I need a seat larger than a 32 inch waist. Don't really care if it has power. But comfort is important to me. I don't want to dread climbing into my car because of the seat. And I don't care if it is in leather or not.

Something to consider is there is no "one seat fits all". The style and design of the seat is dependent on the purpose of the seat. For example: a seat that is comfortable for the street with less lateral support is not ideal for a track seat. We have quite a bit of experience fitting seats in the NSX. I would suggest that the best compromise street/light track use seat is the NSX-R seat, which is available from Downforce as a replica (see this link for a set we recently had made). The best track seat, especially if HANS will be used is the Recaro Pro Racer HANS (available in standard or XL width). I use both these seats myself. Downforce has not been able to reach economies of scale on the NSX-R seat due to limitations of how intensive the various operations of the manufacturing is, however, I think if there is enough interest, we'd be willing to pay for production patterns to be made to make a lower price point work while being a able to produce a high quality item. Further, if there is enough interest, we could reduce the complexity of our rail design that allows multiple seats to be used to further reduce cost. Dave - we're looking for your direction on this, let me know if it is something you're interested in working on together.

regards,
-- Chris

Df seat +1

The pro racer HANS will not make a good street seat. Head protection blocks a lot of vision on the street. Dimer has an ideal seat, this is an idea long overdue. It's removable head protection. You bolt it on when you go to the track and it will increase your safety margin on a huge magnitude. You remove it when on the street.









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I don't know how he managed an NSX R-GT silhouette on there. LOL

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But I am really trying to avoid the boy racer look. That sort of finish is not what I want. I want more this type of finish. This is umbrellas work on a status seat:

I am not suggesting to use the Pro Racer on the street, it is a track only seat.

If you'd like to have removable side head protection, check out the new Sparco Ergo seat:
http://sparcousa.com/product/ergo

Keep in mind, this will not be compatible with the factory 3-pt belt. The NSX-R / NSX-R replica is the only I am aware of that has the shape in the shell to accommodate a 3-pt belt.

-- Chris

I don't want to clutter this thread up with df suggestions as Dave the op is leaning toward something else... If SOS is interested starting a group buy on the df seats, we can make a separate thread to gauge interest pending price point..

Agreed, if the NSX-R seat doesn't fit the bill, then there is no point in carrying the discussion further. I will move the discussion to a separate topic. Dave, after you do your research, if you think it is a good fit, please let us know!