Has anyone put ceramic coating on their headers ? opinions ?
ceramic coated headers
- Thread starter omeganorm
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I had my headers coated with HPC HiPerCoat Extreme because the stock exhaust pipes came with a heat shield and my aftermarket headers didn't. I have no scientific evidence that it actually made a difference but reducing heat radiation into the oil pan, rubber coolant hoses, etc. seemed to be a worthy goal.
Back when I had my MR2, I had all the piping, downpipe, turbo heat shield, anything related to turbo exhaust heat ceramic coated. It looked like a cheap chroming job but it kept the engine bay heat down significantly.
I have read that since aftermarket headers radiates more heat it reduces the life of your CV joints, so ceramic coating definately doesn't hurt. I probably should have done that, but didn't. I do put 303 Aerospace protectant on my CV boots frequently hoping it will help to keep them from cracking.
I'v probably done 20 sets over the years, usually with Jet-Hot. It makes them last just about for ever, is very easy to keep clean, keeps the heat inside the pipes for more velocity- power, less hear all around outside, and you don't have to go with the silver, which I think looks sorta cheesy, them have a satin black, grey, etc.
285 dollars plus shipping from Jet Hot
Sounds about right. It depends on how much they have to coat, kind of a by-the-foot deal; short, basic header and collector can be a lot less than a longer system. Anything beyond thier basic silver finish costs a little more, but I like the satin black enough that that's what I always get.
Go to my post and review for yourself.http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108759
I have used Performance Coatings for over 20 years for everything from two stroke kart racing engines to my toyota atlantic headers with excellent results and headers that last forever, well almost the 10KRPM shifts on my toyota powwered atlantic car stress cracks the headers before the coating ever fails. My formula car saw a reduction of over 150degrees farenheit under the engine cover. My nsx is in the pdf in the thread just look for my avatar and you will see the headers coated and then a pdf of before and after with infrared photos of the before and after results. Oh and I am a certified thermographer and the camera used is a traceable Mikron unit about 25K dollars so this was a controlled test performed by a certified technician. I perform other duties in my job today that is more business related but I have kept all of my many certs up to date in this economy one never knows. Enjoy.:smile:
Wow, thanks for the great info. I just had my DC sports headers done by Embee Perfomance in Santa Ana, CA for $210 in satin silver. I dropped them off personally and turn-around was three days. I haven't installed them yet, but glad to see factual evidence of the benefits.
For a mild steel header, ceramic coating can yield a 25-30% improvement in thermal performance while only being ~ 3% improvement in stainless steel.
Reports have seen that ceramic coating mild steel can reduce the longevity of the header, not as bad for stainless.
It definately makes them look better, and i've heard that treated headers do cool off much quicker where you can touch them after 10 minutes.
Disclaimer: I wouldn't try it
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Reports have seen that ceramic coating mild steel can reduce the longevity of the header, not as bad for stainless.
It definately makes them look better, and i've heard that treated headers do cool off much quicker where you can touch them after 10 minutes.
Disclaimer: I wouldn't try it
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For a mild steel header, ceramic coating can yield a 25-30% improvement in thermal performance while only being ~ 3% improvement in stainless steel.
Reports have seen that ceramic coating mild steel can reduce the longevity of the header, not as bad for stainless.
It definately makes them look better, and i've heard that treated headers do cool off much quicker where you can touch them after 10 minutes.
Disclaimer: I wouldn't try it
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Wait a minute are you saying that you seen traceable reports showing only a 3% thermal rqadiation change for these coatings on all types of stainless? Please send me a link to this information I would be very interested in this information professionally.
PMed
Any thought of thermo-wrapping as an alternative?
That it would be true to say ceramic coating together with thermo-wrapping would bring under temperature even lower..
I have not tried the thermal wrapping methodology so I can give you no insights on this but with thermal coating you have to select the temperature range coating that suits your application. For example the source I use has two coatings 1300 degrees farenheit and 2000 degrees. From the dyno testing of my racing engine I noted that at WOT (wide open throttle) the EGT temps where in the 1400-1500 range hence my selection of 2000 degree coatings to eliminate burning the coating off prematurely. I used this same range when selecting a coating for my nsx. My intention for my car was to reduce underhood temperatures to reduce the effort my air conditioner has to make in summer and to increase the longevity of the exhaust system. All engines are air pumps and build a volume of water under compression of the fuel air mixture. This water vapor contributes to the rusting of the metal hence my coating both the inside and the outside.
Oh and the headers on my race car are made of titainium, one of the advantages of working in the areospace industry, you get to know the sources for materials and where to find them, I do not recommend this unless you have access to an FAA certified welder with the experience to weld titainuim as I can tell you we had two complete failures before we got a good set and if it were not for obtaining the material at scrap prices I could not have afforded to build a set, I also have stainless headers for the car with Burns stainless as the source for my material. Google trhemal wrapping vs ceramic coating on the scholastic site to see if you can find any information or maybe Billy has tried the thermal wrapping as I never have.
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I can only imagine if it really make a big different, or any difference at all, the manufactures of the headers would have made it an option and make some extra bucks.
From what I understand from researching both options, thermal wrapping works but the wrap comes loose and tatters after a period. It also voids the header warranty in some cases.
I know that DC Sports, and Science of Speed on their Taitec headers, offer ceramic coated headers.
"ScienceofSpeed HPC coating: outer and inner ceramic-aluminum coating decreases engine bay temperature and improves performance of header system by increasing exhaust gas flow."
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...oducts/NSX/TAITEC/exhaust_headers/default.asp
I know that DC Sports, and Science of Speed on their Taitec headers, offer ceramic coated headers.
"ScienceofSpeed HPC coating: outer and inner ceramic-aluminum coating decreases engine bay temperature and improves performance of header system by increasing exhaust gas flow."
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...oducts/NSX/TAITEC/exhaust_headers/default.asp
Would inconel be a metal the aerospace industry uses? Just asking.
FWIW, most big header manufacturers offer ceramic coating for their headers and many offer multiple types as well. And as the previous poster has noted, it's trickled down to the NSX community too.
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i wrap.
cheaper then coating.
i can touch the wraping on my turbos headers as soon as i stop the car. keeps under hood temps down and turbos spool faster.
some people say that the wrap trap moisture between the headers and warp and will cause rusting issues. personally have not experienced this, the heat evaps the water pretty fast.
im a big fan. also paint i black for a stock look.:smile:
cheaper then coating.
i can touch the wraping on my turbos headers as soon as i stop the car. keeps under hood temps down and turbos spool faster.
some people say that the wrap trap moisture between the headers and warp and will cause rusting issues. personally have not experienced this, the heat evaps the water pretty fast.
im a big fan. also paint i black for a stock look.:smile:
wraps need to be isolated. if you do a crappy job wrapping the headers then it will have lose spots and will slack in some places. there are not issues if you pay attention and wrap with care. Wrap tatters if you have something rubbing against it. I had this problem, its a easy fix, just wrap over or cut and re wrap the old section.
Would inconel be a metal the aerospace industry uses? Just asking.
FWIW, most big header manufacturers offer ceramic coating for their headers and many offer multiple types as well. And as the previous poster has noted, it's trickled down to the NSX community too.
Wow that shows some digging on material types! I had not considered inconel,for those of you that are not familiar with this metsl it is in the Super nickel chromium alloys types of materials and is typically used for high temperature appicaltions that require resistance to corrosion cracking.
You know today there are manufacture's that offer this metal in various forms, I'll find a metalurgist at work and see if he thinks I'm nuts but information is information and I'll ask anyway, then I'll post their reply.:smile:
Thanks for the info. I wondered about the wrapping portion remaining intact how do you contain the wrap at the termination point, hose clamp maybe?
I also added thermal material on the top of my top speed headers under the oil sump, to reduce heating up the engine oil sump. The headers are ceramic coated (inside and out), but they still radiate a lot of heat under the oil pan.
I was advised *not* to wrap completely around any headers, as this leads to header metal failure over time (due to excessive heat retained in metal, not moisture). Hence my thermal material is only between headers and oil pan area, held to headers with tie wire.
I was advised *not* to wrap completely around any headers, as this leads to header metal failure over time (due to excessive heat retained in metal, not moisture). Hence my thermal material is only between headers and oil pan area, held to headers with tie wire.
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