Odometer Tampering

[Daria]

I purchased a used '92 with 30K on the odom. The more I drive it (and compare to friend's NSX), the more I am convinced that the odom may have been disconnected or tampered with. Is there any way I can check this?

 

[wangtran]

You can go to the nearest Acura dealer and have them run the vin# on the car to see if they can tell you the mileage of the last service of the car when it was taken in for service. You'll only find out if they had it serviced at an Acura dealership. If the car was never serviced at Acura it's going to be hard to tell.

 

[transdzn]

You can go to the nearest Acura dealer and have them run the vin# on the car to see if they can tell you the mileage of the last service of the car when it was taken in for service. You'll only find out if they had it serviced at an Acura dealership. If the car was never serviced at Acura it's going to be hard to tell.

Is this the only way to tell if the Odometer is "rolled" back I thought there were some "powder" thing that makes mark when its rolled back, indicating that it was tampered.

 

[demigod]

What makes you think it has been tampered with?

 

[DDozier]

Here is the main problem with the OD, the ECU does not store the OD information. This means that someone who wants to either roll back or prevent miles from accumulating need only to fool or disconect one system on the car, and without giving anything away to those who want to do this sort of thing it is very easy to do on a NSX. The only thing you can do to protect yourself fully is to do alot of homework prior to buying the car. You should see dealer service records, oil change records, carfax info, registration info (if a car has changed hands alot it is not likely to have the OD disconected and there will be a title record of milage), title info, and information about the preveous owners so you can search them out if need be. Given the value difference between a clean 91 with 30,000 miles and a clean 91 with 100,000 miles people will be rolling back the OD when they see the opertunity to make extra $, and it is not just dealers you need to worry about.

Dave

 

[steveny]

Check the gas, brake, and clutch pedals for excessive wear. Compare how your pedals look to other cars with the same mileage. If yours looks like they are worn as much as a 100k car then your car has more miles than the odometer is showing or the last owner delivered pizza in the car.

 

[NSXB]

Here in CA we have to have the car smog checked (emissions compliant) every year or every two years, I forget exactly. Anyway, when that is done, the mileage is reported to the state DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles). If you have some sort of simular reporting that goes on in your state, give them a call to see what mileage was reported the last time it was done.

 

[Steve T]

Might not be of much use but if you have not run a Carfax your NSX, e-mail me the VIN and I will run one for you. I have a couple of weeks left to run them for free. May not show you any tampering but it might help track the mileage VS time.

2004 NSX Black / Camel
———————————————————————————————————————————————–
Our other cars: 2006 Z06 DSOM / 2006 CLS55 Silver / 2005 Ford GT Silver / 2005 SL65 Pewter / 2005 G55 Graphite / 2005 MazdaSpeed Miata Red / 2005 SSR Silver / 2004 Gallardo Yellow / 2002 Candy Red Prowler + 2001 Orange Prowler + 2001 Silver Prowler + 1999 Yellow Prowler / 2002 35th Anniversary Camaro SS Convertible / 1970 Camaro SS350 / 1970 Black Chevy SWB Pick up / 1969 Garnet Red Camaro SS 350 / 1969 Chevelle SS 396 / 1969 Impala SS 427 / 1968 Chevy Step Side Truck L98/700r4 / 1967 Hugger Orange Camaro 400 / 1966 GTO / 1955 Yellow Chevrolet Truck / 1934 Ford Sedan / 1930 Ford Hiboy Coupe 302 5spd

 

[drew]

I thought there were some "powder" thing that makes mark when its rolled back, indicating that it was tampered.

No, the NSX odo is EXTREMELY easy to modify or change.

The Japanese don't think that way, very little crime in their part of the world.

Just requires removal of the cluster and some minor mechanical skills. There might be some artifact scratches and plastic "trauma" that would be good indicator, but probably nothing that would hold up in court.

So the upshot is: it is unlikely there is any legal relief from the physical condition of the vehicle.

Even if the odo was in someway tamper proof, one could always just swap out clusters. Another way would be to hook the speed sensor up to a high speed drill for a few days

Drew

/There is also the obvious method: dust or superglue for fingerprints on the inside cluster and have them compared. Either one would ruin the aesthetic usefulness of the cluster, but it would be a reasonable test. Also, defeated by latex gloves on the technician
//Good information costs money, how much do you want to know?

 

[steveny]

Another way would be to hook the speed sensor up to a high speed drill for a few days

I am assuming you are talking about putting the drill on the end on the speedo cable? At full tilt 180 MPH, 4320 miles would be taken off in a 24 hour period. I would also think most drills would spin so fast they would ruin the speedo. ie. exceeding 180mph.

 

[Tom239]

Here in CA we have to have the car smog checked (emissions compliant) every year or every two years, I forget exactly.

It's every two years, but only if you live in an area that requires it and if the car is at least six years old. Where I live (Inyo County, California), no periodic smog checks are required.

You can look up a car's California smog check history (by license plate or by VIN) at http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/vehtests/pubtstqry.aspx (although the report doesn't list the mileage).

 

[drew]

I am assuming you are talking about putting the drill on the end on the speedo cable?

Yes I was.

It was more rhetorical than anything....

A few issues:
- doubtful that reversing the speed sensor would make the odo go backwards, so you would have to roll it forward.
- The odo records one million - 0.1 miles.
-So by your calculations of ~4K miles per day, it would take ~260 days at 24/7 to bring the odo to a "marketable number".
- the speedo and odo work independently, so you could disconnect the speedo. Possibly freeing you to crank up the rpm of the speed sensor.


Drew

/When I sold my 65 Mustang with 650,000 miles, nobody cared about the number of miles. I got several times the original MSRP.

//This discussion is purely academic, illegal activity is not being encouraged or condoned.

 

[Tom239]

I am assuming you are talking about putting the drill on the end on the speedo cable?

An NSX doesn't have a mechanical speedo cable.

 

[91 X]

an NSX with only 30K should be clean!!! inside and out. Seat wear is a big give away along with others that people have suggested...A good eye or a good NSX tech should be able to tell if it is actually 30K or not....Good luck.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Check the gas, brake, and clutch pedals for excessive wear.

Pedal wear, seat belt wear, seat side bolster wear, carpet wear under the gas and brake pedals, and number of french fries under the passenger seat! :wink: All these, or at least the wear issues, are pretty good indicators of car use.

 

[jalnjr]

my grey matter is a little fogged on this: consider factual until i'm flogged & quartered...:smile:

there are small rings that separate the odometer digits.... these get flipped upon tamper to a color other than the black seen on your cars[ i hope...]. i got this from a longtime honda gm, technique used thruout company.

screws scratched up on the driver knee panel [ below steering wheel...] would be an important clue someone was up near the odo, disconnect or flipping.

imho.... i think paint loss on the wipers can clue you into the fact you're looking at a hi-mile queen....i would like to study that angle...

be nice to me, i'm an old man. i'll delete this if it's mumbojumbo. tia

 

[DDozier]

Any cosmetic issue you can use to judge age can be changed to look new again, you must combine all the visual items and have a good paper trail to have a good idea of a cars history, and even those things can be faked. Your best bet to buying a good NSX is buy one from someone you trust. Get to know the good folks here on Prime, and those in your area, then when someone you know and trust has their's up for sale, buy it.

I am on my second NSX and I have spoke to both of the prevous owners of both of my cars before I bought either car. This is a great resource if you choose to use it. Almost ever city in the USA has a Prime member, most are willing to help you look any car over to help you judge any car you are thinking of buying, may not help you now that you have yours, but for those looking use PRIME.

Dave

 

[Dtrigg]

Pedal wear, seat wear, seat belt wear, etc. might not be a good indicator if the car was used for a lot of highway miles. That is unless the previous owner was a real squirmer.

 

[91 X]

Pedal wear, seat wear, seat belt wear, etc. might not be a good indicator if the car was used for a lot of highway miles. That is unless the previous owner was a real squirmer.

:biggrin: LMAO for some reason about that one:biggrin:

valid point though:redface:

 

[BioBanker]

Wow - the post sits lifeless for almost 6 years and then its hit with a flurry of activity.

Hope Daria figured it out, 6+ years ago!

 

[91 X]

Wow - the post sits lifeless for almost 6 years and then its hit with a flurry of activity.

Hope Daria figured it out, 6+ years ago!

good eye!!

wtf

I'm going to dig up my first post.....

 

[Daria]

Wow - the post sits lifeless for almost 6 years and then its hit with a flurry of activity.

Hope Daria figured it out, 6+ years ago!

Funny ... I was just thinking the same thing. At this time, who cares what had happened in the past! The car has a new timing belt now, many sets of rotors & pads, new seat covers etc ... I guess it wasn't a lemon after all. :smile:

 

[ghost]

my grey matter is a little fogged on this: consider factual until i'm flogged & quartered...:smile:

there are small rings that separate the odometer digits.... these get flipped upon tamper to a color other than the black seen on your cars[ i hope...]. i got this from a longtime honda gm, technique used thruout company.

screws scratched up on the driver knee panel [ below steering wheel...] would be an important clue someone was up near the odo, disconnect or flipping.

imho.... i think paint loss on the wipers can clue you into the fact you're looking at a hi-mile queen....i would like to study that angle...

be nice to me, i'm an old man. i'll delete this if it's mumbojumbo. tia

very good points there...


Another good way..that i dont think it has been mentioned...is through the tires (and brakes).....looking at the wear of the tires..is a good indication....of course..there would be a slight variation in wear..depending on driving styles.....

So for example.. if your looking at a car with 30k.. and it has michelin tires and the tire rating is around 90k miles.......and you see that the car has new tires on it...or very worn.....then red flags should come up.....

now of course its a bit harder to judge on the nsx...because the tires (specialy rear) wear off faster..then most cars....but you can adjust accordingly.

You can use similar analysis with brakes...but its more difficult....but the tire wear is a good way to judge mileage....

 

[LJSB]

So for example.. if your looking at a car with 30k.. and it has michelin tires and the tire rating is around 90k miles

90k miles? For real? What tire is that?

 

[Bigglezworth]

Wow - the post sits lifeless for almost 6 years and then its hit with a flurry of activity.

Hope Daria figured it out, 6+ years ago!

And to think there are members that swoop down and pound on people when they haven't used the "Search" component of the site first. There was another freshened up post two days back.